"Crusader 29" Topic

link

The link above is to a photo album comparing the undercarriage of a "Marauder" tank made by Crusader29 and a toy tank made by the Boley corporation.

The recent lifting of Crusader29s Bad Trader alert reminded me of this and I now have a digital camera to take comparison pictures with.

The photos show both vehicles side by side and present detail shots of the bottom. You can see that on the Marauder the holes where the toy's wheels were have been filled, the comany nameplate has been scraped off, and armor panels were placed over the screw holes.

After purchasing the tank from Crusader 29 I immediately noticed the similarity to the toy I had purchased. I tried to contact them for a brief period of time but received no response.

While this may be a legal reproduction, I take exception to paying $25 USD for a tank whose largest piece was copied from a toy that cost less than $10. USD

I purchased both items in December of 2000 to the best of my recollection.

lol you can get those tanks for $1 at our local stores- you're right it seems a little.....cheesey?

Wow. I think they're busted. I bet right now they can't believe you caught on to that. What's the odds that you would own the toy they ripped off, and think to compare the two?

Yeah the resemblance is so uncanny I would swear they were the same. Right down to the filled in wheel holes...

What a brilliant post-modern statement on the impermanence of authorial ownership vis-a-vis the ironic underpinnings of any "creative business" !

The kit was made from one of the guys who "Kit bashed" and thought it was pretty cool (you would have to see it complete). However that model since has been discontinued.

The same kit was still available as of today at Crusader29s site. The picture, at least, is the same as presented on the box of the model kit that I have. Have they changed the contents of the box?

@Alexandre2004- I see you're a new member. Welcome to TMP. You seem to have an inside angle. How many of the Crusader29 kits are "kitbashed" then, and how many are original sculpts?

[The same kit was still available as of today at Crusader29s site.]

You can get through to their site? I haven't been able to all day.

To be fair to Crusader29, it could be that the sculptor did this on his own, and the company wasn't aware of it.

I suppose the germane question here is: when is it allowable to use another model as the basis (even in part) for a model?

It would obviously be very wrong for someone to take a competitor's model, change a few things, and introduce it as a new model of your own.

In this case, looks like the artist started with the toy hull as a framework to build his hull. Looks like the tracks, running gear, and bottom of the hull remain the same as the toy; the ends and top are "new"?

So - is this a grey area, or is it definitely over the line?

You can see the pictures of the complete model here:

It is a very different model.

If you have a problem with the Tank, when the page comes back up ( it has been down all day ) contact Melinda and she can set you up with somthing else – no problem.

Since 2000 the lower hull and tracks have been casted in 3 different sections and slightly modified ( sounds like you recieved one of the first versions ) .

Until today I have never heard anything negative about the model.

Bill,

I work graveyards. On my nights off I tend to be up at odd hours. When I got through the site was still available at that time.

Part of the upper hull looks to have been copied as well, but that is the only other part. If anyone would like to see, I can take photos of it as well.

made in china...... were the situation reversed nothing would be said. That particular market has little use or respect for trademarks and copyrights.
no sense remaking what you can steal.

Alexandre,

No offense, but those photos are with the side armor in place, you barely see the tracks. My kit also included the side armor which is a seperate piece.

In the first photo you really can't see the tracks at all.

The photos you show are the same model I have, I don't know if the hull has been seperated into multiple pieces later on, but if it's the same hull what difference does it make?

Any light you can shed is appreciated

Gah...great...yet another "tempest in a teapot" battle on TMP...Iron Chef America is more entertaining and relevant lately.

hehe
"Tempest in a teapot"... good phrase

This still isnt me....:-)

So, is Alexandre2004 a sock puppet? That is the question which plagues us now....

AGh..--BRAIN...HURTS--

I'll pay the extra for Resin so my 25mm Falschimjager won't fall over and knock the plastic tank out of place.

[is Alexandre2004 a sock puppet?]

No, he's speaking for Crusader29 because he works for them. (He thought it was obvious from his post that he's an employee.)

@Editor-Thanks for the clarification. I guessed from his post that Alexandre2004 was close to Crusader29 but I did not want to assume he is employed by Crusader29. We all know what happens when we assume :-)

@Alexandre2004- You may have missed my earlier question. To paraphrase- How many of the Crusader29 kits are kitbashed from others' products and cast vs. original Crusader29 sculpts?

I have seen everything here being used such as sheet plastic, tubing, screening, a block of resin being filed into the proper shape.

Some of the simplest kits such as the stonewall set, you would not believe how much work goes into it. I would love to tell you how they were made but you would have me in a soup line :)

As far as I am concerned they are all originals, I really cant say more about it.

"I have seen everything here being used such as sheet plastic, tubing, screening, a block of resin being filed into the proper shape."

Those are raw materials; the question is your company's replication an existing toy which was then passed off as original....

[the question is your company's replication an existing toy which was then passed off as original....]

To be fair, that's an overstatement. This isn't a question of replicating an entire toy, but of using part of the toy (the pictures show the tracks/running gear and bottom) in the master for a new vehicle.

I think a good example of this is the Battlestar Gallactica. If you look at all the tank hulls, axles, wheels, and do dads that cover the hull you'll see the artists there only built a hull then slapped model bits all over it. The unique look of the Galactica was a kit bashers dream. In the movie Aliens the drop ship and APC were all models produced by other companies also. Now this would be fine but then they sold these kits and they are very clearly IP of other peoples endeavors.

Technically I'll bet the green plastic army tank was a mold kit from a 1/48 scale scale model kit also.

Bill, you're absolutely right. I stated that poorly.

Alexandre's statement that all the works are original simply touched a nerve. I don't agree that making modifications to an existing article constitutes "original".

""This isn't a question of replicating an entire toy, but of using part of the toy (the pictures show the tracks/running gear and bottom) in the master for a new vehicle.""

Still counts as a pretty serious breach of copyright to use the components from someone elses design in your own model. I think its just as bad as if they had knocked off the entire thing - I'm also not surpised that no-one will stand up and admit that it obviously IS a copy considering the implications.

Cut a GW Bretonnian in half and stick a new body on it - then manufacture and sell it and see how far you get.....