"Mechwarrior Dark Age revisited." Topic

I have read several posts lately about de-basing mechwarrior miniatures for use in other rules systems. I have a huge collection, and always enjoyed the game and the fiction that went along with it. I think it is time to bring them back out on the table, but with some rules fixes to make it more playable. I know there are many who feel the mech is a ridiculous concept, at least for ground combat, but never mind. I think they are cool, and I don't really care about "reality" messing up my game fun. Here are some of the changes:

* I returned the game to a hex grid. It came from hexes, it needed to go back. It solves all sorts of problems, and using 3 inch hexes makes the movement and ranges "feel" right. 1 mech or 1 vehicle or 3 infantry fits in a hex.

* Mechs can move and shoot, or shoot then move if declared. Pushing never made sense to me. What happens in the fiction when mechs try to do to much is handled easily with heat effects. Vehicles and infantry can move 1/2 and shoot. Movers shoot with a minus 1 to hit.

* All units are moved or pass in a turn. This makes the battle feel more dynamic. Players get 1 movement order per 100 points, just as in the original rules. Players take turns until all units have moved or pass.

* Armies are faction pure. You get what you get, and no combining equipment to make "super" armies. Large battles could mix allies or factions that make sense from the fiction like Highlanders and Republic, but they fight in separate units.

These are the highlights of the change. I use most of the last edition rules and special effects as is. The big change is allowing move and shoot. The need for this was brought into focus when the VRTOL figures came out as the only M&S unit. So what do you think? Would you be willing to try this game under these conditions?

If it works for you, go for it.

Personally, I like the idea that mechs are pushed when they fire, or move twice in a turn. Vehicles and infantry only being able to fire, or move also makes sense to me.

As for initiative, I prefer using the Battletech system of loser has to move one unit first and that the player gets to move as many units as they have command points.

So that is probably a no from me. ;-)

* All units are moved or pass in a turn. This makes the battle feel more dynamic. Players get 1 movement order per 100 points, just as in the original rules. Players take turns until all units have moved or pass.

I don't get what you're saying here.

In the original rules you got one order per 100pt. That meant that you could activate one single piece or one formation and they could perform actions per the rules.

However your first sentence says that "all units are moved or passed in a turn".

So which is it? If you go with all units activating each turn (like in Battletech) then orders make no sense unless I'm missing something.

But I agree with pushing. I'm an old Battletecher and I never understood why "pushing" was in the game beyond the tactical headaches that it added to the game (should I just keep that unit inactive and let it lose its order chit, or should I push, take the damage, and perhaps do more damage to the enemy/move out of harm's way?).

On thing that I did love about Mechwarrior was the fact that it seamlessly integrated conventional units and mechs into the game with only a couple of special rules. Most armor and infantry units felt 'right'. Regardless, it was a fun game and has a certain place in my gaming heart because it was the game that me and my nephew played the most before he got out of gaming.

*Armies are faction pure. You get what you get, and no combining equipment to make "super" armies.

I dropped out of the game when Age of Destruction came rolling in. The 'new' pilot and equipment cards were just plain annoying with everyone trying to trick out their mechs with the newest gear/pilots to get the edge in competition. The last set that I really enjoyed was the one that introduced the Jade Falcons. Prior to that all pieces were what they were and you could easily see what they could do.

With gear/pilot cards all of that went out of the window. Each card could radically change what a mech could do and many players didn't really pay attention to the fact that the cards were aimed at different size categories and felt free to slap gear on everything.

I just got tired of the whole thing and pulled out. A shame though, it was a fun game for a while.

* All units are moved or pass in a turn. This makes the battle feel more dynamic. Players get 1 movement order per 100 points, just as in the original rules. Players take turns until all units have moved or pass.

I don't get what you're saying here.

Essentially a player moves one or two units depending on the number of points in their command or they get an extra move if they have a unit with the command ability.

Moving first is a definite advantage most of the time (due to Move and Shoot ability). Each side takes turns activating units until they all have moved (or sit and do nothing i.e. pass).. Then the turn is over and you go again.

In order to appreciate it you need to look at the movement options for the units.. Essentially ground units have the shoot or move half anf shoot options.

However Mechs have more options, like firing multiple weapons, moving half and shooting, moving full and shooting… The more they do the more heat they take on.

We have play tested this a few times with Artslave, and it does make for a playable game.

I might give it a try, but I'm so happy with "Mech Attack!" and my modeled bases, that there's very little attraction to a system that:
-comes on clicky bases,
-limits you to the faction arrangements of wizkids
-doesn't take into good account the full selection of weapons that a mech has.
-Is not customizable without cards.

If you enjoy the basic MW system, more power to you. I know that there is at least one redux of the rules out there that has it's own podcast, so clearly there are folks out there that feel like you do.

I hope Dervel's post answered the move question. Tgunner, I agree completely. Jade Falcon was the last big collection for me. If they were going to use a card-based system, they needed to start off that way. Adding it late made for just more abuse of "killer armies". I do like the personalities, and use those cards if I don't have the proper mech to match what they used in the fiction.

I like the interplay of air, ground and artillery. The mechwarrior system allows play in the integrated battlefield. I know very committed Battle Techers who do this with the BT rules, but it is probably limited to the very expert players.

I still like the click dial taking the place of charts and charts and charts. By using the hex, a figure can be picked up, the dial turned, and it is easy to return it to the exact spot. Also no silly "missing" someone by fractions of an inch. It compromises customization, and yes, we are then limited to the figures that WizKids produced. I am willing to live with that. Unfortunately, the removing of "push damage" severely limits the Steel Wolves. They rely on getting better when they take a click. Many of their figures still work because of "one time use" infiltrate.

It really was a fun game to play. MW kept things simple by getting rid of record sheets and putting the vital information right there where you could see it. It really was a game that was meant to by PLAYED, and I played it a lot.

Yeah, it has some silly odd stuff like transports that could carry huge tanks and stuff… but for the most part, it was a fun little game.

I agree with the cards. I don't think I would have been as turned off with the concept if the game started with them. However once that stuff rolled in then the 'charm' of MW melted away. You now had all this dinky cards to keep up with and they could really change the game- and don't get me started with terrain and objective cards!

I wouldn't mind seeing MW come back, but it needs to be better thought out next time around.

I also would love to see Battletech reimagined with rules that can accommodate vehicles, infantry, aircraft, and VTOLs in a more seamless way that gets rid of the pile of record sheets that you would need to play with all of that gear.

I mean, take a typical MW force that has 2-3 units of infantry, a couple of AFVs, a VTOL, say one artillery unit, and a mech or two. In Battletech you would need 2-3 different rule books, a record sheet for each unit, and tons of experience with the BT system to run all of that.

MW did all of that with very few rules and no record sheets. It also did it in an entertaining way. BT just can't do that.

To understand pushing, you have to think of two MechWarrior turns equaling one Battletech turn. Moving twice in a row is like running, and generates more heat. It also makes the "move or shoot" decision make a little more sense: the first MW turn is the movement phase of the BT turn; the second MW turn is the combat phase of the BT turn. (Yes, there are problems there, just go with it.)

Infantry moves *way* too fast in the game. That really borked the need for transports which were introduced later.

MW has heat effects for mechs. It takes care of extra movement or shooting a second weapon. Maybe the concept of 2 MW turns equal a BT turn is how the mechanic got developed, but I still don't care for it. In my opinion, mechs traveling at 1/2 speed are just moving at "cruising" speed, and simulates what I think the fiction portrays.

I would agree that the transports do not work. They would be mostly for bringing the infantry to the tactical area where the game will play out, and have little function beyond that. The brief time that allowed transported stuff to attack in the same turn as unloaded was yet another example of how powerful move and shoot could be.(and most of the mechs could not) It was too unbalanced because of a few transports having very large movement rates. Also stupid things like allowing huge tanks to be carried inside infantry vehicles didn't help.

The movement rate of jump jet and speeder infantry seem alright to me. I assume that these troops where transported to the tactical battlefield, even if we don't see that pre-game.

True transports became another way to create move and shoot like the aerial units… in a somewhat broken system.

with the rules we play with Artslave the transports might be used to transport a mass of regular infantry with some cover.. But jump jet or power armor would move in the open.

All this talk is getting me nostalgic. I sold off all my MW stuff to fund other pursuits….now I want it back! :)

Yeah I've had a bit of a return of interest to this game too!

I have the Dark Age rules, but not the special equipment card, does anyone have a link hindy to the original Dark Age equipment card?

Personally I think CBT got better once you weren't limited to hexes.

The Dark Age rules were lame but I have a huge collection of the miniatures You should check out CBT's "Quick Strike" rules, might be something you'd like.

Alright folks started playing "Clicky Tech" using the last printed rules " Age of Destruction" you can find them at: link

Now I'm a old grognard and it took me a long time to swing around towards this version. But I have actually had a lot of fun playing it. I can talk as I've played Traditional and full terrain Battletech since 1986 . As well as being a Catalyst Games labs demo rep. And a Lead agent for the LA/OC Catalyst Demo Team on the West Coast. So with that said. If you ever wanted to try "Age of Destruction" Clicky Tech.

We have players who come to St. Crispin's Hobby Day on the 2nd Sat of the month. Located at the Knight's of Columbus Hall in Anaheim California. 1127 N. Anaheim Blvd,Anaheim Ca 92801 and doors open at 8 AM to 11 PM.

Anyhow if you want to play "Clicky Tech" let me know.

Our next Hobby Day is Jan 14Th 2012