| Lovejoy | 27 Jan 2011 1:42 p.m. PST |
I work as a sculptor, and I keep being tempted to have a go at doing some flats – probably ancients or biblicals of some kind. Question is, is there any market for flats these days? Or should I just grit my teeth until the urge passes? It's the financial viability that concerns me – any time I spend sculpting for myself is time I'm not getting paid for; so if I indulge myself and do flats, I'll need to be able to sell some… Do people spend their hard-earned cash on flats? Or I guess more to the point, do enough people spend on flats? Cheers,
Michael |
| farmdog63 | 27 Jan 2011 2:11 p.m. PST |
The idea intrigues me…do I dare ask what scale you like to work in? Dave |
| ancientsgamer | 27 Jan 2011 2:18 p.m. PST |
Flats are much more popular in Europe. There is a tradition for them over there. Most flats in this country sell either as painted or for artists that paint them. Some of them enter contests too. The level of painting is incredible as they are making a 2D object look like a 3D object. I don't think the market is anywhere near where 3D figures is though. Your labor would be one of love and probably not as financially viable. Having said this, flats command a premium and it could be that you sell at a higher profit but at a much lower turn rate, if you get my meaning. I would contact some of the companies that sell flats. You should be able to Google them. Tell them what you want to do and ask them bluntly how many figures they sell in a given year. I will tell you this, you would be competing against some really talented sculptors in Europe. Now if you are trying to sell to defray the cost of molding and production for yourself, I would bet you could make this viable. As far as making a go of it as a business, I don't think so. |
| Dan Cyr | 27 Jan 2011 2:40 p.m. PST |
I got some lonely 'Wooden' flats a number of years ago in 25 mm scale. Very nice, laser cut I believe and color printed on both sides with the narrow part colored in. Wish I could get some more so I could finish a project, but no idea what happened to the maker (a printer in VA). Dan |
| Who asked this joker | 27 Jan 2011 2:47 p.m. PST |
Wish I could get some more so I could finish a project, but no idea what happened to the maker (a printer in VA). The printer still exists though I lost the name. Do you remember what the "flats" were called? The printer is nearby my home up in Vienna I think. I've seen pictures of them and they looked really good. |
 20thmaine  | 27 Jan 2011 3:10 p.m. PST |
There definetly is a market for flats – it's fairly small, fairly specialist and it's part of modelling rather than wargaming. Irregular do a small range in 42mm irregularminiatures.co.uk |
| Repiqueone | 27 Jan 2011 3:40 p.m. PST |
Guys, they were called "Windcatcher" flats. They did ACW and FFL and were really quite nice, and reasonably priced. I have no idea what became of him. Either nobody wanted them (I would be shocked if that were true) or he couldn't make any money at the price he was selling them at. I had a whole set, but regrettably sold them. Let us know if he stills makes them. |
| vojvoda | 27 Jan 2011 3:42 p.m. PST |
In Germany they were very popular. Here in the States not as much. Check on Ebay for some good ideas.V
VR
James Mattes |
| Andrew May1 | 27 Jan 2011 3:58 p.m. PST |
Flats are called Zinnfiguren in Germany. I'd never heard of them until last year when someone either here on TMP or over on Frothers posted a link to some beautifully painted flats of an ancient Indian army. They were amazing! Anyway, here is a link that may be useful: link |
 timurilank | 27 Jan 2011 4:31 p.m. PST |
If you are seriously considering a move into the "flats" market, do look at the catalogue offered by Zinnfiguren of Berlin. zinnfigur.com The amount of positions per unit are unbelievable. Take an artillery gun for example, every gunner's position is depicted either as firing the gun, unlimbering the gun, replacing a broken wheel, resetting the barrel from travel to its firing position or marching along side the limbered piece. It may do well to visit one of the large conventions to "research" the market, Kulmbach is one of the better known events. Cheers,
Robert |
| Cyrus the Great | 27 Jan 2011 5:13 p.m. PST |
There would be interest, but I don't know if there'd be enough for you to make it viable. |
| pavelft | 27 Jan 2011 5:44 p.m. PST |
I love flats. They're notoriously tough to sculpt though as they're usually sculpted in slate in relief. |
| CorporalTrim | 27 Jan 2011 5:54 p.m. PST |
Michael, I'll buy some from you. ;-) 20th Maine mentioned the Irregular Quarter Flats. I have some samples, both ranges. They're not really true flats, more like squashed Prince August semi-rounds if you get my drift. Manufacturing flats isn't the same as sculpting a master and creating a mold for it. I'm no expert on the zinnfiguren process, I but I think it works roughly like this: Basically, there is a designer who does the drawings (the two images viewed from each side of the figure). Next is the work of the "engraver", who engraves the images in slate: again they are two-sided so the engraver will etch the obverse and reverse image on two stones such that the sides will align when the stones are joined to form the mold and the molten metal poured. Not trying to discourage you. The more flats, the better. But it is a niche market, no question. Steve |
| (Phil Dutre) | 28 Jan 2011 4:39 a.m. PST |
The Wooden Flats were produced by Windcatcher Graphics. I have quite a few of them ( link ), but lost touch with the manufacturer as well. I used to receive updates, but nothing in the last 5 years or so. Metal flats or zinnfiguren: check out Berliner Zinnfiguren (shop online). I have recently completed a musketeer unit for a SYW project I'm starting with flats. Not to the painting standards of turning it onto a 3D appearance, but more simple block painting. Also look at this blog for some inspiration for wargaming with flats:
crogges7ywarmies.blogspot.com |
| Lovejoy | 28 Jan 2011 6:42 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the information, everyone – I've just joined the British Flats Society forums, and I'll have a good look through them over the weekend. And if the itch still needs scratching on Monday, I may have a go at sculpting some flats… |
| Ducel1 | 29 Jan 2011 6:19 p.m. PST |
Phil,
Great pictures of your figures shown in your blog. Do you use oils? I've just started painting flats, my project is Leipzig. The painting of your flats is excellent.
Russ |
| (Phil Dutre) | 30 Jan 2011 2:58 p.m. PST |
@Ducel1 Not my figures, I wish they were. You should contact the blog's author directly ;-) |
| Marc the plastics fan | 15 Mar 2012 3:43 a.m. PST |
Is there a technical reason why Flats would have to be etched in slate, rather than made in more "traditional" (I know :-) Green Stuff and silicone moulds? |
| ChicChocMtdRifles | 03 May 2012 1:41 p.m. PST |
Way back in the 60s and early 70s there were ads for different armies, and I bought two sets-First one was a set of green hard plastic US military(Army/navy/airforce/ marines that were pretty flat. The other was 2 legions of softer plastic romans, one being red the other yellow. Are those considered flats? Hadn't thought about them since…Who knows? Seems like the green soldiers were real brittle and broke easy. Softer romans did okay, though. |
paints piebald and skewbald horses.