"Has FOW Jumped the Shark ???" Topic

I only tend to play forces from Cobra and Fortress and only a coupe from each side so it's a BIT of hike to pay out £60.00 GBP to replace the Cobra book. I will because I suppose it will be nice to have all the info and the new lists just in case I expand.

I could get by without them though. I doubt there'll be many more FOW books this year though and given the numbers of rule books I have that I don't use these will be better VFM. Not sure I'll be in a rush to buy the Bulge book though and may wait a couple of years for 'Battle for the Reischstag' or whatever it'll get called. LOL!!

comradetexas wrote:

play from whatever book you like as long as it is acceptable in your gaming group.

That's true for any set of rules ever written.

"It's not jumping the shark if you never come down."
-- "Supernatural"

Are you referring to the brouhaha with Maelstrom??
link

or their list of whats coming for 2011 (a large chunk of which is Vietnam oriented)??
link

What does, "jumping the shark" mean anyway??

I agree with aecurtis.

Jumping the shark is an idiom used to denote when a particular production effort has surpassed its relevance and reached a point of decline in quality that it is incapable of recovering from. It refers specifically to the point in a television program's history where the plot spins off into absurd storylines, unlikely characterizations, and adding or replacing characters. These changes were often the result of efforts to revive interest in a show whose audience had begun to decline

Cut and pasted from the most accurate wbsite in the world :)

oh

"Jumping the Shark" specifically came from the Happy Days episode where Fonzi jumps a shark in a tank with his motorcycle. Robert

does FOW even make a tank with a shark in it?

With regards to comments about points, the points reductions seem clearly designed to sell more models.

E.g.

1. T-34's in Ostfront were viewed as too expensive points wise when compared to their ability.

2. In Eastern Front BF reduces points for T-34s (about 100 points per company of 10). That's good news except…

3. …Battlefront also reduce points for all the German AT systems including the already extremely effective Pak 40, StuG etc. Even the MW Pak38 now costs roughly the same as it does in Late War, despite it being more effective against average mid-war tank as opposed to average late war tank.

4. Result: T-34's are still overpointed. But now you have to buy more minis for either your Germans or Russians in order to have the usual minimum 1,500 points.

There is no improvement in game play or historical accuracy (in fact the Pak40 becomes a mainstay for 1942-43).

The Evil Empire does this all the time and now BF do it wholesale.

Historical accuracy and points systems don't really go together in my view. I like FoW, I have some of their Intelligence Briefings. Do I agree with everything in them? No. Do I let it get in the way of having a fun game? No. I'll quite happily have a less powerful force than that available if it conforms to my view of historically accurate. This is probably more about my mindset as a player rather than the rules or marketing strategy of the manufacturer.

brianmc wrote:
"does FOW even make a tank with a shark in it?"

Yeah, but the fins too big!

Jumping the shark is…

I did ask a long time ago, what happens to a company that is heavily reliant on a games system, when that system is no longer the 'current fad'.

I suppose similar issues with DBx with the recent release of FoG and Impetus… except that DBx doesn't have figures range attached to it.

We sell figures for any games system (www.quickreactionforce.co.uk), and they are used in any games system (FoW, PBI, IABSM, Rapid Fire, Panzer Marsch, Crossfire, Blitzkrieg Commander, etc – there are lots of them out there, all being played), therefore we are not affected when clubs decide to switch rules systems, as they do every few years.

Yeah, but the fins too big!

Only the dorsal fin. The pectoral fins are ok.

Personally I stopped buying Battlefront models pretty much totally shortly after I started FoW. I have bought them in sales and where BF are the only company that makes a decent model of X but as a general rule I look at all the options and pick he one I think is best value.

As for briefings I find the free online spreadsheets that work out points for your force to be almost a complete substitute for buying the new books. I have bought none of the Western front books either in their first or second incarnation.

I do buy the books I am really interested in (Eastern front and early war) but that is all.

I have a different tac on this. I think , much like Happy Days, they can not have jumped the shark yet if they are still expanding their base. When Happy Days jumped the shark their ratings started to go down and thus they spiraled into the sea. FOW is still growing from every indicator I have seen so I they have yet to jump the shark.

"What does, "jumping the shark" mean anyway??"

""Jumping the Shark" specifically came from the Happy Days episode where Fonzi jumps a shark in a tank with his motorcycle. Robert"

Jumping the Shark has come to be known as taking the plot in crazy directions to attract viewers once the writers have run out of fresh new ideas, as somewhat stated above. Also, to split hairs, the gang was at the beach and the Fonz jumped the shark on water skis, not his bike.

And as for the "Jump the Shark" reference, the stigma is very unfair. I think Troy from the current sitcom Community said it best: "Happy Days had an episode where Fonzi really did jump a shark… and it was awesome!"

More on this subject plus an AAR at:

thehobbystudios.com/wordpress

Are you refering to their attempt to get into model railroading?

That's right. It was water skis. It's been a very long time since I had seen the episode. Robert

Was he wearing a leather jacket then?

I think like the Infantry that BF has over command decission. As for tanks I cannot tell the difference other than all the kit the new resin BF tanks have on them. So I ususally end up going with Command decission.

One thing that make BF and FoW better than GW is that BF cannot tell me that a Panzer IV does look like or isn't armed like my old models or that Germans no longer wear those kinda of helmets. The most they can do is change some rules and the army lists on me. I have hordes of GW stuff that can't even be used anymore or arn't to scale. Plus with GW you cannot use other Sci Fi figures technically.

I like many other people am a lead horder and have drawers of 15mm figures for playing 15mm WWII games. I use my figures to play both FoW and Blitzkrieg Commander because the basing all stays the same. I personally don't mind shelling out a couple bucks on books every couple months to keep BF in business. The books quality and content has only gotten better since I started playing in 2007. Sure some of my army lists need a little shuffling and reorganization, but that doesn't bug me because I like the game and like the books. Plus in redoing of the books BF has addressed some of the complaints and problem those who play the game have with them. For example the new org charts are so much better than the old ones.

I personally would like to see more Mid War books on that are less general on focus in on the Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk Campaigns.

Why yes they did when they first release FOW.

yeah i know, but im talking about new mid war books for 2nd edition with the new formats.

Dragging this back from the dead pile like recycled Zulus in a TSATF game…

We are playing a Normandy campaign.
I have the earlier 2.0 paperback American themed supplements.
The guy running the campaign asked me to bring D-Day and Cobra to the game, because the compilations had neither the bocage rules (D-Day) nor the hedgerow cutter rules (Cobra). Since the games are at my house, bringign the books was easy.
However, that does bring up an interesting question. If the compilation books are supposed to have ALL the rules in them from the 5 or 6 (or 7…) D-Day supplements, why did they leave out the bocage and hedgerow cutters from the American book?

Why do they MENTION Centralized Fire Control in Cobra, but put the rules in Devil Dogs and/or Cassino?

I think they were expecting you to either print out the free bocage rules on the FOW website or have bought Das Book which is essential if you ask me at this point. Main HB rulebook is almost worthless compared to Mini rulebook and Das Book. Unless you have poor eye-sight.

I think it makes way more sense to have the Rules in a different book than forcing someone to buy an army book(even if they don't plan on playing any of the armies in it) just to get the special rules out of it.

I wish they would make a Version 2.5 Rulebook and combine Infantry Aces, Das Book, and the Main Rulebook with a better index and rules clarifications.