"Interested in Mexican Drug Cartel Wars?" Topic

On a scale of zero (no interest) to ten (gotta do it!), what would be your level of interest in wargaming the conflict between drug cartels and the police?

roughly -10,000 give or take a pip

It's up there with gaming Dachau or Srebrenica in my book.

Yeah, no interest in gaming it or seeing it gamed.

Seconded. -10k seems about right.

Company-level Cambodia's Killing Fields, anyone?

0

-10

0

Why the revulsion? What's the difference from gaming, say, an African dictator, or Italian mafia conflicts?

I'd give it a 5 or 6.

I won't game "current events". Abstraction involving PAST events is different.

And dark elf internment camps and orbital plasma-bombardment of dirty bug hiveworlds is OK, too.

Maybe as part of a police campaign for Chain Reaction or something. But not something high on my list. Proabably a 2 or 3 at most.

I would be if there were figures to support it. I don't see any difference between Mexico and Somalia; Two countries that seem to not have any internal control and who ever has the most guns and money is the boss. Some of the ambushes, gun fights and raids that I've read about are really interesting and would make a great game. Every conflict has super bad things that happen maybe this is just too in your face for some people. I mean we do game conflicts were thousands of civilians were killed during those wars what would be the difference with this one?

I would happily game DEA or Mexican military (augmented by some SOF advisors) raids on a drug gang hideout, or a hostage rescue or similar scenario.

Once it's history, maybe, but I'm not sure it'd sit right even then. With best part of a thousand people a month, a large chunk of them innocent bystanders, dying even as we type, not for me thanks….

Simple: it's current affairs. DH yourself, Bill!

Yeah, I know: the TMP FAQ provides a weasel hole: "Similarly, discussion of politics pertaining to current affairs (within the past ten years) is not allowed, except as it pertains to modern wargaming."

Allen

10

0

I'd give it an 8+.

Seems a great opportunity for some of those rare, 3+ sided or more games, e.g. cartel vs. cartel vs. police/government/military.

Of course, all may have their own agendas, and agreements on the side with one another, making it a truly diabolical game. To make it even more interesting, it should be very rare to kill/capture the head guys/ladies, since they use lots of minions.

Oh, and capital punishment is forbidden, so if the bad guy just surrenders, he can run things from a very plush jail cell, or luxury villa while under house arrest.

Plenty of opportunities to escape, walk, or helicopter out of prison later, if desired, since he'll/she'll own the wardens/guards/judges too.

Based upon recent news accounts, that happens all the time.

To escalate it a bit further, throw in a mix of secret CIA/FBI/DEA/Homeland Security/Seal or Delta Teams, and some South or Central American-aided rebels trying to smuggle in Middle Eastern terrorists. They can be moved overland, through numerous tunnels under the border, via vessels and mini-subs at sea, and even ultralight aircraft, under the radar net.

Not much. It's not that I don't like to game current conflicts, but somehow Cartels in Mexico are where I put the line. May be is because I have a personal acquaintance with some of the people in the receiving end of Cartel violence. One of my friends -a graphic designer- run away from Mexico and came to Spain. He had a small business in Guadalajara, and some local dealer wanted to use it to laundry money. When my friend went to the police, they told him that it would be healthy for him and his family (he has two small kids) to accept the proposal. My friend sold his business and came to Spain. He didn't want anything to do with those thugs.

-10 Completely distasteful, and I would stop gaming with anyone who decided to game it.

So whats the difference between gaming WW2 were Bomber Harris blow to pieces Berlin and several other German cities with thousands of Civilians or the Germans hitting London, or the English raping they're way through Ireland but you guys will draw the line at soldiers, Cops and drug dealers??

-10 not interested at all. No game in this "conflict" if thats what you want to call it.

0-2

Funny I can buy a bunch of Gangster figures (from the Al Capone days, to current gang bangers), I can buy rules systems devoted to cops against drug lords and other scum (Geezers, Shut It and the Vice Palms expansion or what ever as examples), and yet use these with Mexico or the border with the US as the setting and folks get upset.

I guess I remain of the opinion that there are Good Guys and Bad Guys. In this conflict it is pretty simple to decide which is which. Gaming the raids and stuff just does not bother me.

Any one who object to it ever play Pig Wars or any other viking raid type game? How about games with gangs of orks or post apocalyptic raiders? I've seen games with Border Reivers, Old West bank robbers, and Conquistadors. How about any games with settlers/rangers/cavalry against Indians? How about wars in Ireland, I've seen plenty of figres for that?

What makes the current drug wars any worse, besides that fact that they are curent? Os is it JUST because they are current, but in a few years it would be like playing Al Capone against the Feds?

I would rather do it in Near Future Post Apoc style game. That would seem to have more scope.

Thanks,

John

No.

My first impluse was to reply no.

However, after giving this some thought, this could make an interesting HOTT game.

A campaign variant between the six "familias" comprising of shooter, blades, lurkers, sneakers, flyers, paladins, riders, behemoths and gods. Stongholds could vary from villas, to barrios, pickup trucks in a circle, etc.

Oyé narco!

Cheers,

"0" interest, but then that is because their violence has hit close to home for me.

"However, after giving this some thought, this could make an interesting HOTT game. A campaign variant between the six "familias" comprising of shooter, blades, lurkers, sneakers, flyers, paladins, riders, behemoths and gods. Stongholds could vary from villas, to barrios, pickup trucks in a circle, etc."

More like Hd x 24.

Why the revulsion? What's the difference from gaming, say, an African dictator, or Italian mafia conflicts?

But I don't live right next door to those options.

No, not interested at all. Too many of my students and colleagues are worried about family across the river.

I saw the same thing when people wanted to game Viet-Nam. It was seen as distasteful or morbid, but now there are at least a dozen know rule systems to game that very conflict.

Yes, the two are completely different, though they both share similarities, as far as overview & tactics are concerned, possibly even that which deals "winning of hearts & minds".

I agree with Cpt Jake & also those comparing it to Somalia – How many have run a BlackHawk Down scenario? What about Ambush Alley & the conflicts it depicts?

If a person has rather closer ties to this than most of us do then i can see an unwillingness to participate in such a game, but for the majority of WAR-gamers to divest themselves of any participation seems just a bit hypocritical given our collective desire to game out just about any type of warfare or conflict.

This is my opinion, do with it as you will, adding my two cents into the conversation. Yes i would participate in such a game if one was offered to be run. Dealing with the side issues involved in such a game might make use of several Fog-Of-War card decks similar to AA's but one for each faction.

Why not also game home invasions, hit and runs, and traffic stops gone bad?

If anyone who wants to game this wants to go to Juarez I'd be happy to drop you off there for a day so you can do some research on the subject.

Probably the best sceanrio would be the one where the cartel members go into the drug clinics and kill anyone who will not leave the program and work for them. That's always a real nail biter. Probably be a great convention game.

It'll be even less "fun" when the US eventually does get actively involved….

Zero interest in gaming this or other current real life and death events.

I'll be the odd bird here and say that I have been gaming it using Ambush Alley and 28mm TAG figures. I read "Tequila Junction" by Poole and it gave me a whole new perspective on things south of the border. Lots of scenario possibilities and even more potential combatants.

Gee I love listening to other peoples' morale values (insert eye rolling icon here).

My top five…..
War on Obesity (with an expansion game of War on Obese Children)
War on Poverty
War on Drugs
War on Spam
War on Man Caused Disasters

miscmini said on 15 Jan 2011 6:28 p.m. PST:

"War on Spam" --be careful--SPAM is dangerous when merely wounded: shoot the pseudomeat-filled can right through the center to make sure it is dead!

Murphy, we are already involved to a major degree, but it's still not on the scale of Mexico, and goes pretty much unreported.

The Mexican cartels have pretty much taken over our national forests to grow MJ in California, and their thugs and distribution networks are all over the country.

They're also doing a lot of human smuggling in addition to all the other drugs they're moving into the country.

0. Robert

I thought that the police worked for the cartels….who are the good guys?

Not just NO, but HELL NO!!!!

Jim

I'm with ColCampbell on this. I don't need to game it – a 15 minute drive down to Pacoima allows me to be a spectator.

Topic-wise: 8

Time-wise: 2

I have no problem with the topic. Tactics are tactics. I understand the sensitivity of folks living on the border or much closer to the issue than I here in Michigan. However, I also look at this as a study in tactics no different than the Irish Wars, Viking Raids, Mafia Wars, etc. As for time, these are other things on my plate before this so I've got those to consider first.

Nah, not for me thank you.

I like playing wargames where I can see colourful uniformed troops march across the table and where I can (tunelessly) hum and whistle marching tunes as I roll the dice of doom. Not sure where the enjoyment is with depicting squalid murder.

Others may like it though, each to their own.

No way! Wargaming mass graves does not float my boat.

no interest. too many variables and too close to home…

I understand and I don't judge to those people that wouldn't mind to game this subject. However, it's not my cup of tea. Is it 'worst' than gaming 'Stan? Not, it is not… and I don't mind to game 'Stan… But Mexican Cartels block my ability to have fun. At the end of the day, what I look in a game is to have a good time, and somehow I can't think I would have fun gaming this subject. That's not to say I feel myself a person of higher morals than anyone who would game it, because I don't. It's only that MY personal feelings of DISGUST for the subject would imposibilitate my ability to enjoy the game.

I'd put it at a 6, assuming it's more of the tactical police-cartel battle stuff (more of a counterterrorist/SWAT type game). No interest in the civie side of it.

How many bonus campaign points do you get for throwing a few grenades into a disco? or a school?

There's a difference between whats going on down there and what happened in Chicago with the mob. The cartels kill innocents just for being in the wrong areas or being related to the wrong person. With the old mob, they occasionally killed an innocent, but it was very much frowned upon.