"Are TUGARS More Like Mongols Or Like Huns?" Topic

Wikipedia says Mongols:

"The Tugars are a clan of an alien race, also known as the Horde. In the world of Valennia, they inhabit the north-most realm. A once highly sophisticated and technical race, they harnessed "Tunnels of Light" to bring them across the universe to distant worlds. They are based upon the Mongol horde."
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"Tugar race:

The Tugars are a horde of alien humanoids that devour humans as "cattle", circling the world and devouring one-fifth of the people in each city-state roughly every 20 years. However the men of the 35th have a substantial advantage over the beings of this world: guns.

The Tugars are biologically very close to humans, and can contract some of the same diseases. They evolved on another world and resemble humans due to convergent evolution. They spread from world to world by "tunnels of light", which are wormholes their ancestors built. They are proportioned like humans, but are eight- to ten-feet (2.4–3.0 m) tall. Their bodies and faces are covered with short hair and they have large canine teeth. They have apelike faces, but their bodies are Herculean in build and of handsome appearance. They ride horses of very large breed due to their stature. Tugar society is ruled by males with their females taking no significant social, political, or military role, quite unlike human nomads. They are very good mounted archers, shooting four-foot-long (1.2 m) arrows. It is revealed that the Tugars are a fallen race that once had a great intersteller civilization. The Tugars no longer understand how their ancestors invented the "tunnels of light" and one Tugar in the series jokes to a human that he will show him the location of one, "for a price." There are other hordes of the same aliens, called the Merki and Bantag. Many humans just call all the aliens "Tugars" by definition.

They received their horses and perhaps some of their nomadic culture from the Earth. The Tugars say that in the past they have visited the Earth, and they vaguely resemble the Bigfoot. The Tugars do not understand why Colonel Keene wants to fight them; in a conference the Tugar ruler told Keene that they protected the "cattle" when they first were settled on Valennia, and in any event the Tugars eat only 20% of the humans before they move on. The Tugars rely on humans for all the food and manufactured goods to maintain their [[nomad]ic way of life. Human "pets" follow the Tugar hordes, and are expected to eat what their masters do, and fight alongside their masters while seeing fellow humans murdered, butchered, and devoured as a routine matter. Most Tugars think that humans are simply inferior and have no souls, and cannot imagine that they would revolt rather than accept the status quo.

The Tugars are very conservative. They know they rely on the human "cattle" for all their needs, make nothing by themselves and are far outnumbered by humans. Some think their dependence on the human "cattle" threatens them with eventual extinction, but the rank-and-file Tugar would rather keep matters exactly as they are. The Tugars have encountered at least two other alien races on Valennia, brought there via the tunnels of light. One was a human-sized, Tugar-like hairy humanoid, and became "cattle" like humans; the other was non-humanoid with very advanced weapons. Once the Tugars destroyed the advanced aliens by force of numbers they refused to copy their weapons and threw them into the sea. The Tugars also encountered two human pirate ships brought through the tunnel of light. They captured one and said "they killed many Tugars before we feasted on them" but likewise refused to copy the pirate's guns."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_Cry
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One depiction:

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But, based on their actual descriptions in the Forstchen series, what do you say?

Dan
TMP link

Bigfoot-like Mongols.

Be nice if someone would make a small line (cavalry and infantry with command) of them in 15 mm. Plenty of ACW figures to use.

Dan

Would also be nice if the series was finished (smiled).

Dan

Dan, you have hit my major pet peeve with this otherwise very interesting series!

As to the question, Mongols, no question – even to the "mourning the Khan" thing

Thanks guys!

Despite the fact that the series was never finished, I still think that the first few novels alone offer great inspiration for gaming ACW vs Horde.

Perhaps 15mm humans vs 20mm or 1/72 Mongols?

What do you think?

Dan
PS. Wasn't the "mourning of the khan" ritual also a custom of the Huns, Avars and other pre-Mongol Turkic groups?
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I'm still ed off that the series has never been finished. It's been what 10-12 years since that the last book.

The whole drinking from enemy skulls thing was common to many steppe cultures, but I'd say Mongols were theclosest fit.

Personally, I didn't mind that the series never got finished. It had gotten a bit tiresome and too overtly political for me. But that's just me.

Bill has had a LOT on his plate since that last edition. Real life, teaching, plus other books he was obligated for.

I know he'll eventually finish them off, but don't hold your breath.

What volume was it up to? I think I have up to #7 or #8. I'm missing 4 and 5.

Thanks,

John

The wonderful thing abut Tugars is Tugars are wonderful things….

TKindred do you know William Forstchen?? If so grab him about the stack and swivel and get him to write another Lost Regt book!!!

John, The last volume I have is #9 "Down to the Sea".
I always saw the Tugar as closest to a Mongol.

Irish, yeah… I did most of the weapons research for him for the series, some TOE stuff, etc. He used to teach up here in Maine and we did some ACW reenactments together. He wrote me in as one of the characters in the series, and killed me off in, I believe, Vol. 3.

In fact, all of the ACW characters in the series are named after friends of his.

FWIW, I always imagined the Tugars to look more like flesh-colored Orcs.

Perhaps it was the pictures on the books, but I'd agree with TKindred that I thought of the Tugars as flesh-colored Orcs.

Also agree that I saw them as more Mongols than Huns.

Dan

Huscarle,

Down to the Sea is the last one I have, and it is supposed to take place 20 years after the previous one in the series.

The major players had undergone some serious technological changes by then:

TMP link

Dan

I am not normally snooty about things, but – what does this thread have to do with the discussion of the Historical American Civil War?? The logic behind crossposting it to the ACW Board escapes me.

Well . . . for starters, the good guys are an entire regiment of ACW Union troops, with artillery and an ironclad . . . and fighting in traditional/historical ACW style.

So who could best contribute to that aspect of the game scenario but none other than you ACW experts!

Dan

I thought Tugars were a couple of very ugly, inedible river fish! But what do I know about this thread? Guess it must be some kind of cultish fantasy/military series? Might be a good one too for all I know!

OP title; how are Mongols and Huns NOT alike??? Just a few centuries separate them, but the Asian Steppe is the most unchanging cultural melting pot of the world: everyone who goes there ends up looking like a pony warrior with a bow.

Never seen the word "tugars" till this morning. Thot is must be a typo for "tigars", then realized I was spelling tigers wrong….

doc,

It's an exceptionally good ACW/SciFi series. Well worth the time to read. I admit I'm biased because I know the author and did research for the series, but it's well written has the basis for some really cool games, ESPECIALLY for those who like history.

Cacique Caribe 22 Dec 2010 8:55 p.m. PST
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So who could best contribute to that aspect of the game scenario but none other than you ACW experts!

*NJH: There's no such thing as an ACW expert. Anyone who claims to be is shoveling smoke. There are many people who study the ACW and know quite a bit about it.

I have read some of the books in the series, they're scifi/fantasy fiction, not history.

LOL. Gotta love them Purists!!!

Dan

Cacique Caribe 23 Dec 2010 8:10 p.m. PST
LOL. Gotta love them Purists!!!

*NJH: Me, a purist, that's so very far off the mark. I don't give a about the button colors of company grade officers in the Peninsular Campaign of 1809. I don't even care about using early war militia uniforms in the 1864 campaigns. My concern is with the crossposting of the thread. You came looking for info and discussion about the Tugars, and near as I can recall the Tugars had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the ACW. You didn't post questions about the ACW units in the series, you asked about the Tugars. Tugar discussions should more properly be on the Scifi/Fantasy boards, not the ACW board. However, it's not my site, so, as long as Mr Editor sees no error, there is no error. I'll be quiet now.

Cheers

TKindred

Thanks, I Kind of like Hammers Slammers, and the Dorsai (spelling?) novels where distant future combat reverts back a bit to earlier equipment and tactics with future tech added here and there! The ACW guys vs Mongol type aliens is more off the track, but I sure wouldn't condemn it without a looksee! If the ACW part is done to high quality, then it could be an interesting side trip for ACW historical types to dabble with!

Doc,

I am also a great fan of Hammer's Slammers. Wonderful stories.