"Are games prejudiced against plastic 1/72 figures" Topic

I have recently got some Victris/Perry plastics and enjoyed the time sticking them together and they are now ready to paint. This got me thinking about plastic 1/72 figures and my early days in the hobby using Airfix ACW figures.

Well I bought a few boxes of HaT and Zvezda Napoleonic figures and I was amazed by the quality of the figures and the suitability of the figures for wargaming.

I showed the figures to some of the my gaming group and while a couple showed enough interest for us to buy some WSS in 1/72 plastics others totally poo poo'ed the idea.

So my question is are you prejudiced when it comes to wargaming with plastic 1/72 figures ?

No, in fact my Ancient armies are composed almost entirely of 20mm plastics as is the bulk of my 20mm WW2 stuff.

I have come acros otehr gamers who only regard metal as the porper material for wargames figures though.

I really like both 1/72nd and 54mm plastics. My issue though is the poses. I think plastics could give some real competition to metals, if the poses where more gamer friendly.

I'll use 1/72 plastics for Flying Lead but I'm not going to invest heavily in it.

No, I've got Aztec and I'm slowly building a Carthaginian army in 20mm soft plastic. I do enjoy mocking the 20mm nappy players locally though. So maybe a perception not a rule?

Yes, there is prejudice. People still think that 1/72 figures look like crap and can't hold paint. The most ridiculous excuse I think is that plastic figures (soft or hard) don't weight enough.

Yes.

There are a fair few people on here who say 'all plastic 1/72 scale figures are crap!'.

There are also several who say 'all plastic 1-72 scale figures are great! All 28mm Metal Figures are Crap!'

The Wise Man recognises there is Crap and there is Great available in every scale, and every Material.*

I count myself among the Wise of course.

Pat the Wise

*Apart from 28mm Multi-part Hard Plastic. Those are Crap.

The most ridiculous excuse I think is that plastic figures (soft or hard) don't weight enough.

That's not ridiculous, Bud. IT's a cold hard fact.

It's a weighty argument.

Once John the OFM and aecurtis have got themselves out of an armchair, EVERYTHING feels a bit light to them.

Pat

There is a kind of attitude towards 1/72 plastics … mainly as i suspect '' because they don't hold paint '' .

As an owner of a few thousand naps, plains wars ,acw and awi 1/72 figures . They are clearly all wrong .

Those soft plastic figures don't hold paint very well (without dipping in varathane) and, just my opinion here, are harder to paint for that very reason -- be it physical or psychological.

I have WWI 1/72 figs I use for wargaming mounted on washers -- which gives them the heft needed for wargaming figs.

mjc

Wait until you've had those soft plastic figures for enough years: they will have lost their volatile petrochemicals, and will crumble in your fingers. My metal figures will be as solid as the day they were cast.

Allen

The guys at the Ambush Alley Games forum are decidedly 20mm plastics friendly.

The main obstacle for me doing more periods in 20mm plastics is simply trying to find teh troop types I want/need.

The size and detail are great, orften superior to metal.

Like so many wargamers I started with the Airfix soft plastics back in the 60's. Some are still in perfect condition, others have shed paint and some have gone brittle and crumbled.

I found 15mm metals easier to paint and they were available in a larger range of periods too by the time I got back into painting in the 80's.

Now I don't do anything larger than 10mm so soft plastics are out because of the size, not the material.

Predjudice no, preference – yes.

If you say you play with 1/72 plastics, they treat you with disdain. But if you tell them your a 20mm plastics player, they think you rock. Then they realise they are the same and just throw rocks at you. 1/72 scale rocks…

>>Wait until you've had those soft plastic figures for enough years: they will have lost their volatile petrochemicals, and will crumble in your fingers.

I've had my Airfix figures for 35 years. When is the problem supposed to start?

Games aren't prejudiced against bendy 20mm plastic miniatures, gamers are.

Ditto here. Still using Airfix ACW's left over from the original event :)

Yes, there is prejudice. People still think that 1/72 figures look like crap and can't hold paint. The most ridiculous excuse I think is that plastic figures (soft or hard) don't weight enough.

Mostly these people are brain dead and or cavemen.

I have a fondness for plastics as 20 years ago it is all that could be had in the hobby stores I knew about.

Plastics are too light(like an emaciated, undernourished third world dog-way too light and this conveys little prestige) and they hold paint until you paint them and then touch them and it flakes off. And finally they don't totally look like crap but by the time you chisel, slice and file to get the paper thin flash from the face they truly turn into crap. Lol…Sorry, man…

I just painted plastic about 3 months ago and re-lived the experience.

Apparently you chose your plastic poorly, friend.

I've painted and gamed with them for years. No flaking, no breaking.
I dig 'em. Cheap, cool, and they look like real peeps, not mutants.
(unless they are minis of mutants, then, you know…)

Yeah, there are some folks who either base their opinions on soft plastics from 20 years or more ago. They know what they were like back in the Airfix days but not much about the new plastics. Or they weren't aware of HOW to properly paint them. So, they spout all plastics will readily shed paint. It isn't true. I have been buying and painting plastics since the 60's till now. I own 1000's of them.

Some guys just enjoy slamming them. I guess it makes them feel good. Funny thing is that plastic Companies outsell metal figs by a vast rate. Only GW are the exception.

Bottom line is prime and seal your plastics properly and they will be fine. Anyone telling you otherwise is either uninformed or has an agenda.

Thanks,

John who loves his plastic and metal figs.

They said that the Revell SYW minis had solved that "won't stick" problem. They hadn't.

They still haven't solved the flash problem, which invariably runs down the middle of the face.

They still haven't solved the washed out detail down the side torsos.

I tried all those withche brew recipes back with my Airfix toyus. I tried scrubbing them in Comet cleanser. I tried soaking in vinegar. I tried priming with gesso.
It did not work.

Why should I go through all that grief a third time? Let the newbies get sucked in.

I personally think it is political TMP suicide to go against the plastic crowd. I would rather reach a truce and try and cooperate.

The TMP plastic crowd:
link

John I collected those Revell SYW figs and haven't heard that. Was it recently? Flash can be an issue on some sets. Many sets have zero flash. I buy 100's of boxes a year and maybe it's an issue in 1-2% of what I buy.

I would humbly suggest that what was suggested back in the Airfix days is very different than what folks use now. Rustoleum Plastic Spray Primer works fine. It won't chip or flake. Seal per normal or with Plasti-dip and your figs will be fine to use.

I know there are lots of folks whose primary experience was with Airfix back in the 60's and 70's. I'm just saying that that experience is no more relevant now than judging metal figs by Peter Laing or other 1st generation figs.

I realize that you won't jump back into plastics. That's fine. Each person decides what they prefer. I chime in when I see things posted that either are factually incorrect or outdated.

Combat Painter, when you make snarky comments about something folks like rather than simply saying you prefer metal figs for various reasons folks will reply.

It's as simple as that.

Thanks,

John

I own quite a few of the 1/72 plastics.I have a friend that I game with that uses them regularly.There has been a huge improvement in the soft plastics over the last several decades.That being said,I still prefer my 15mm metals over them.

Have very large 1:72nd nappy armies – a lot of these are over 30 years old and still fine. I want more ranges in 20mm other than historicals and moderns – fantasy has started to come out, now we need sci-fi.

I don't think it is plastics that are the problem. The ranges in that scale often have holes in them that you needed to fill with lead figures that didn't have the same look.

Then scale creep happened.

Now for tabletop games, 28mm/"Heroic"30mm is the thing. Damned expensive as well (the reason I won't touch it). Hence the plastic for the rank and file (just like the old days but in reverse!).

I have a lot of 20mm, but to be honest, If I was to buy t all again, i'd go 10mm/12mm.

Combat Painter, when you make snarky comments about something folks like rather than simply saying you prefer metal figs for various reasons folks will reply

I love plastics…Lol… Is that snarky enough for you , John?

Yeah, your posts here and on the other plastics thread show how much you love plastics.

Don't like em? That's ok. It's when you say things that simply aren't true and others have explained why that it becomes snarky. You seem to have an agenda.

I don't think plastics are that great a deal cheaper than 15mm when you allow for that you get what poses/ratio of troops that you want in 15mm.

Also 1970'/80's plastics where usually crap. It's only in the last 10 years with the internet and a wider range of good figure that I would consider plastics if I was a new wargamer.

But as I'm in 1100-1650 Western Europe, Eastern Europe till about 1690 and the Middle East/India till about the SYW. As well a having a wide range of native Americans (Mould Builder/ Tupi/ Amazon/ Inca/ Aztec/ North Western Pacific native/ Hawaiian and a few Forest Indian) try doing that with 20mm!

I also tend to think of 28/30mm is the thing for the table top- that's why my Trojan war stuff is in that scale (and one day I'll find the rules I like for them).

I don't think plastics are that great a deal cheaper than 15mm when you allow for that you get what poses/ratio of troops that you want in 15mm.

They are not. In plastic you get 40 or so figures for about $10-12USD plus shipping. You can get FOW platoon blisters 32 figs for $12-15 plus shipping.

Not that big a deal.

If you are paying 10-12 dollars a pack you are being robbed. Most plastics run from 5-9 dollars for 48 infantry or 12-15 cavalry. The poses are suitable for gaming in most of the recent (last 10 years or so) sets. At the Battlefront site a 15mm German infantry platoon runs 19-20 dollars. Even at 18 dollars a set ( the warstore sells them at $20.00) that's 56-62 cents a figure. Hat run from 6-7 dollars a set. Caeser and Pegasus run 8 dollars a set. That's 14-20 cents per figure. Hardly the same price.

Thanks,

John

Painting figures with Gesso helps. The new hard plastic and the new soft plastic both hold paint very well. There are also several new paints and glues that work well even on the old plastics.

Most new plastic sets have no flash at all. Some companies like Pegasus are making multi part figures that have great detail. Caesar is using three part molds with great animation. Hat has a wonderful range of British Colonial.

Plastic Soldier Review shows photos of nearly every set made and detailed reviews too.

There have been more plastic sets made in the last ten years than in the previous 30.

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

The more recent sets have very few useless poses, too.

I wish the plastics guys would just stop the misdirection and distortion. I have no agenda. But use facts and experience to make my point. Here it is:

Fallacy:1:72 scale plastic have complete lines and ranges.

Ranges are limited. An example-I collect Desert war. This is not obscure. I am not talking Maori wars or the Korean war or the Bay of Pigs. Lol..

In 1:72 only Caesar does a set. If I want Australians or Indians there is nothing whereas in 15mm I have many many companies to choose from.

Prices fallacy:Plastics are cheaper.

For Afrika Korps Caesar has 35 figs for $12 USD while battlefront has 27 for $17 USD one is around .25 cents a fig and the other is .50 a figure but I chose one of the more expensive manufacturers. Plastics are cheaper. BUT WAIT!

When I bring Old Glory Command Decision into the calculation things change; They will sell me a bag of 50 for $14 USD So? How is metal so much more expensive?

You guys are way off and ignoring the facts.

That is all I am coming at you with cause I have no agenda but the experience and the facts. It is OK that you want to insist that plastics have all the advantages of metal but they just don't. Sorry. What I must object to is that you insist I am making things up and it isn't so.

Ummmmm…..sorry but there are 7 DAK sets that have been made in 1/72. All but 2 are readily available.

link

There have been 3 Australian sets made. Two are available.

As I pointed out all the sets but Caeser have 48-50 figs. Even the Old Glory figs are twice as expensive as plastics and they aren't the best out there. You try and cherry pick sets to get a closer price comparison.

I am now pretty convinced that you simply aren't really aware of what all is available in 1/72 and what they can be readily bought for. I simply can't figure out WHY you feel compelled to keep taking shots at 1/72. You don't like em. Ok, we get it. But, you don't see us going on 15mm threads and saying about why the suck. I actually love all my plastic and metal figs from 6mm to 54mm.

Thanks,

John

John,

You are way too defensive. I don't care one way or the other if you collect plastics, metals or 2mm grains of rice. What difference does it make to me. I didn't "cherry pick" anything. I choose what I like-Desert war to give examples. I don't know every plastic dealer on the planet. I chose Caesar because that is what I saw first. I combed the internet cause I wanted to get my boy some cheap stuff so I checked out the plastics. As I know you can get 50 figs for $10 USD or so. I saw was Airfix(which look good BTW) They were about $5 USD 0r $6 USD but I can also get Command Decision packs of 50 in con flea markets for $3 USD so it still beats Ebay. This is not what I was comparing. Rather I was looking at the first info I got not the most hard to find.

DAK I see they have as I am aware of that site you linked to. See I am not totally in the dark as you believe I am.

I tried to find Indians, Aussies, French and Italians and I didn't find much. These BTW are all well represented in 15mm by more than one manufacturer. If this was so obscutre it wouldn't be.

North Africa WW2 is not an obscure theater but one that is quite popular and needs to be explored. it is full of real hard fighting, lots of great adventures and many different armies all making their mark. Yes, even the Italians… Lol…

Good luck with your collection, John. Enjoy it! I just received a couple of Armourfast tanks in the mail today and bought a couple of six pdrs last week I will have a friend put together for me.

I want John Leahy's autograph.
Or maybe we should send him to the Middle East to broker a peace deal.

He's always polite. Always reasonable. Refuses to be goaded.

Indeed, if TMP had a lot more like him, it wouldn't be nearly such an amusing place to visit.

Absolutely not! In fact, all the figures I bought this year have been 1/72 plastics. They're lighter, easier to transport, easier to paint (primer+basecoat+minwax=done!) and several entire magnitudes less expensive than their larger cousins. And in this budget-conscious age, who doesn't like that?

Yep, metal gamers generally don't like platsics. But it is a wide world, and those of us who like them can cope with the sniping.

My experience is that modern plastics are useful, detailed, wide ranging and economical. HaT are producing Prussian infantry in three boxes – marching, action and command. So little waste, as you can buy what you want. Zvezda sets are generally very wargame friendly in terms of poses and numbers. I game Napoleonics, and am pleased to be able to buy Austrian cavalry limbers, French field forges, pontoon wagons, Mamelukes, grenzer, French infantry in bicornes, Austrians in casquets (sp?), French Guard light lancers 1814, etc etc. Yep, there are gaps. Nope, it generally is not too big a killer. Yep, I can use some metal ranges to fill in gaps when I want to.

But then, try buying Bardin uniformed French from AB. Oh, hang on….

"The most ridiculous excuse I think is that plastic figures (soft or hard) don't weight enough."

I find this to be an advantage, much easier to lift and carry six boxfiles full of plastics than six boxfiles full of 15mm metals, especially Peter Pig tanks. Ouch.

I'm with John the OFM on soft plastic figures – my experiences are exactly the same. I had around 2,000 plastic Napoleonics, but got sick to death of them losing the paint on their muskets, swords, ankles, etc.

Hard plastic figures on the other hand, I'm perfectly happy with. I've got nearly 100 Victrix painted now, plus some Perrys. They're beautifully detailed and while there are some flash issues with the Victrix figures particularly, the finished product is just as good as metal. Sticking the bloody things together though, is a chore.

However, I do find a problem regarding the weight – for some reason I keep dropping them when painting. This NEVER happens when I'm painting metal figures, but plastics just sem to fall out of my fingers every five minutes and I've no idea why this should be the case.

but plastics just seem to fall out of my fingers every five minutes and I've no idea why this should be the case

Wash your hands after you remove your Nail Varnish and Eye Makeup for the night.

Pat

"The most ridiculous excuse I think is that plastic figures (soft or hard) don't weight enough."

I find this to be an advantage, much easier to lift and carry six boxfiles full of plastics than six boxfiles full of 15mm metals, especially Peter Pig tanks. Ouch.

A gaming friend of mine has MS. He is slowly replacing his stuff with plastics as it's easier for him to move figures around the table.

Persoanlly I prefer the 'solidity' of metal figures and I tend to eschew plastics if I can get what I want in metal. Vehicles of course can be in anyhting.

Plastics are easier to paint, Primer+Base Coat+Minwax.mm

Funny, I paint my 15mm metals the exact same way. Also have dome it with 28mm (metal and resin), 6mm, 3mm, and 1:6000 naval.

My 40mm metals get primer, paint, Future.

I actually find 20mm plastics harder to paint because although they are loaded with detail, it is all realisticly in scale, not hyper exagerated like many metals.

In a lot of ways 20mm plastics are to me just like 10mm and 28mm, I want to love them, really I do. But I just don't enjoy painting and gaming with them.

@stenic plus
"and I tend to eschew plastics"
Do not, repeat, do not eschew plastics. Or even suck them. The plastic may be toxic.

Cheers Pat! I knew I was going wrong somewhere! ;o)