"BTD-TMP Communications Problem Solved" Topic

I've mentioned a few times lately that I've been getting cryptic messages from Black Tree for the last week or so, accusing me of "blocking" their email or preventing them from posting at TMP.

I've responded to those emails to try to get more information from Black Tree, but have never received a response.

Today, I discovered what I think the problem was. As I mentioned in the news story, I've had a "monitor" on Underdog's known IP addresses. Well, I've found a glitch that meant someone trying to access TMP from Underdog's IP addresses in the past two weeks was getting an error message, instead of seeing the usual TMP pages.

It appears that this could have made it difficult for Black Tree to read and respond to the Message Boards over the past two weeks, depending on what IP address their ISP gave them when they logged in.

However, Father Ted switched to a different bank of IP addresses in March (after his initial visits), so that computer system did not suffer from the glitch and has always been able to access TMP.

This makes me very glad I decided I could not afford to but some of their figs a couple of months ago.

It would appear you have to get up very early to get one past the EDITOR !! Well done!

I'm actually shocked..Really. I had a favorable experience with the one BTD I placed last year. I'm mildly disgusted to see a company resort to faux favorable feedback to address their customer service troubles.

"the one BTD order" I meant to say. See how shocked I am, I've forgotten how to write.

Kudos to the Editor for the great detective work.

Borders on fraudlike behaivour. Don't trust them. 'Tis a shame. I was considering some of their stuff for an upcoming project. Oh well. I'll look elsewhere.

John

Really a sad sight indeed...
I've only had good experience with BTD and their products are really nice but this "puppet" incident ... this is lame.

/ C-j

I hear they have a puppet that looks like a Nigerian Oil Minister...

I don't mean to sound as if I'm Underdog's fourth unknown sock puppet, but has any access by the BTDUK account been logged from Underdog/Father Ted's new IPs? If so then yes, Underdog seems to be the same person as whoever uses the "official" BTD account and the whole company is compromised. If not, and especially if no access by the BTDUK account has been logged from the address *range* associated with udnerdog we might assume that Underdog has taken to posting from his home account and it seems likely without BTD management knowing.

I'm still going to buy from them.

Wayne

[I don't mean to sound as if I'm Underdog's fourth unknown sock puppet, but has any access by the BTDUK account been logged from Underdog/Father Ted's new IPs?]

No one has logged in on the BTD UK account since the day that the Father Ted account was initiated. Father Ted has since switched to a different bank of IP addresses, noted by BT Openworld as "broadband business" addresses.

[If not, and especially if no access by the BTDUK account has been logged from the address *range* associated with udnerdog we might assume that Underdog has taken to posting from his home account and it seems likely without BTD management knowing.]

Sounds like you are assuming that Underdog is Father Ted. Remember, Underdog also dropped off at the same time as BTD UK and Sordid Affair.

We know that Vaughan Edwards sent an email from a web browser that was logged into TMP as Father Ted.

* was it his web browser?

* is he then Father Ted, or just someone who used Father Ted's computer?

* Is Father Ted, Underdog? If not, that implies two people in collusion.

Yes, it looks like Father Ted has been operating from a different location since starting his account. I don't know if "broadband business" type connections are available at home, or only in an office (depends on BT Openworld policies, I suppose).

Based on the logs, Father Ted is probably using a portable computer.

This is starting to read like an Agatha Cristie novel. :-)

According to your summary on the front page, the "Father Ted" account was created by Underdog, who also posted as "Sordid Affair". That implies that Underdog, FT and SA are the same person. If this person is someone other than the official BTDUK (Dean/Jen), we could assume that he would use his latest pet alias ("Father Ted") when he got access to a computer that he could log in from. Maybe his home computer, maybe he's a freelancing computer techie, maybe he has a second job who knows? If "Father Ted" is Dean or Jen, we could assume that at one point or another he or she would use the working computer to log in as BTDUK to respond to some of the flood of complaints directed against them, linking the BTDUK account to the "Father Ted" account and thereby implicating Dean and Jen. But this hasn't happened, so the question of wether Dean and Jen are responsible remains unanswered.

Also, Dean and Jen were pretty vocal around here up until recently, and the tone and style they used in writing is quite different from "poop on my shoe" Underdog's.

Hi
In the dying days of the Harelequin company, we (Ainsty)received a certain amount of abuse and threats from Dean. If BTD is under a bit of pressure, then Dean can certainly dish the nasties out
Cheers
Mike

BTD will just chalk up the whole thing to not knowing how to use a computer. That was pretty much their excuse for the email fiasco.

Perhaps we'll hear from BTD in the near future. I'd like to hear what they have to say.

Rev

[BTD will just chalk up the whole thing to not knowing how to use a computer.]

Unfortunately, I suspect that whatever explanation BTD gives it will be hard to believe. Everyone (me included) will instinctively belive it's a lie after this debacle.

[Perhaps we'll hear from BTD in the near future. I'd like to hear what they have to say.]

Me too, and until then or until we have evidence as to who actually did what I think we should all take a deep breath and not jump to conclusions.

[Me too, and until then or until we have evidence as to who actually did what I think we should all take a deep breath and not jump to conclusions.]

here here

BTD- BUSTED!
Greasy & dishonest business. They just lost my business and future recommendations.

Now this begs the question as to whether this BTD 'underdog' is in any way related to the infamous Crusader29, despite his/her claims to the contrary.

Wow! This one had me fooled longer than The Crying Game!

Do we need to drag another company into this. Just by mentioning a totalyy seperate business you can do overflow damage to their name. Guilty by association?

Crusader 29 and BTD are totally unrelated in this I can assure you. I know Mario has had some issues in the recent past but he has them worked out and is now back on track and doing very well.

He recently sent a very large order to North bay Games and Hobbies before Hotlead, the order was well received and in good standing in all ways.

When it comes to destroying a company, as this news will do I am sure, can we stick to evidence and fact and leave speculation out of it.

Wouldn't it be cool if i-kore bought out BTD?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

What is truly tragic is that instead of trying to build real positive customer relations, they had shell accounts shilling for them instead. I suppose there is an optimist in me that hopes that this was the result of some hapless intern or something, but someone I doubt it.

Witt

I ordered some Brits from them and got them in a reasonable amount of time.

I hope and pray this sock puppet incident is not a result of the owners. If it isnt their computer security leaves something to be desired. The wargaming community is a close one and for me this is a major dissappointment. I implore BTD (as a customer} to answer honestly to these allegations. I feel at this point I cant order again until this is cleared up.

[According to your summary on the front page, the "Father Ted" account was created by Underdog, who also posted as "Sordid Affair". That implies that Underdog, FT and SA are the same person.]

Not necessarily. But if it's multiple people, then they were online at the same time, from the same location, posting to the same topic - which suggests they were working together.

Father Ted was only at the same IP address range as the others for one day, then moved to another range. As I said earlier, looks like he's using a portable computer.

That *could* be a match for Vaughan Edwards (a director of the company), who has a laptop, and reportedly isn't based out of the same location as the BTD offices. And Vaughan did use the same computer as Father Ted.

However, Vaughan says he hasn't been able to access TMP using his laptop, while Father Ted obviously has... so maybe he's not a match.

The other BTD manager that can be traced to the same IP address range is John Olsen. So, did Vaughan borrow John's computer to send today's message? That's a possibility.

There's no evidence that Underdog or Sordid Affair have posted from anywhere other than the same IP address range as the official BTD account. Now, *if* the posts from the BTD account are made from work, then Underdog and Sordid Affair must have posted from the BTD offices as well (at least on one occasion). We know that Dean and Jenn have posted on the BTD account, but realistically, any BTD employee with internet access from work could have done this. (Do BTD employees have internet access at work, or is that limited to management?)

I imagine we'll hear an explanation from BTD tomorrow, clearing up everything...

[Now this begs the question as to whether this BTD 'underdog' is in any way related to the infamous Crusader29]

I don't believe so (except that Underdog did post in favor of Crusader29, which is what is being referred to). I've spoken to Mario at Crusader29 several times recently, and I believe he'll have some good news for TMP soon.

Does this mean he'll also have good news for the customers who never received their orders?

As in Crusader29, not BTD

for sure this socket puppet story seems not to be exactly they way one expects a company to work like and I would even say it is no good style to behave to the clients that way but let me ask you a question:

do you really believe these quotes in marketing leaflets where they say "I bought this product and I was so satisfied" Mr. X from CA or "I lost 250 pounds in two weeks" Ms Y from NY....

As said before itīs for sure no good style but hey, do you like the figures go and buy them, you donīt like them donīt buy them, you donīt like their service? get the figures from somewhere else...

wargaming industry seems to me to be not big enought to kill the few companies that support opur hobby at all or do you expect hasbro to continue the bussiness them. and all that just for some "poop on the shoe" and 250 pound lost weight? letīs get over it.. i got minis to paint.

[I've mentioned a few times lately that I've been getting cryptic messages from Black Tree for the last week or so, accusing me of "blocking" their email or preventing them from posting at TMP.]

Just a thought: many people who aren't terribly familiar with computers confuse email, web and general internet access. Could it be that BTD's "email problems" are infact basic connection problems from their office?

"As said before itīs for sure no good style but hey, do you like the figures go and buy them, you donīt like them donīt buy them, you donīt like their service? get the figures from somewhere else..."

The point is making people aware that the company, or certain persons within it, engages in this type of behavior. Behavior like this damages their credibility, which after the recent meltdown of customer service is something they can ill afford. Consider: If we can't trust them not to have any better sense of ethics than sock-puppitifying TMP, who's to say they're above lying about why all those orders took 2-3 months to get to the people (including me) who paid airmail charges for something that wound up on the slow boat? Or misrepresenting the status of their email client?

It's like the old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Bill posting this info here (THANKS, BILL!) might save somebody from being fooled the first time.

Interesting point about the broadband account. I have a web designer friend who has just switched over to broadband, or should that be just tried to switch over! They cancelled his old dial up account but hadn't done the installation of broadband yet (he needed new phone lines and stuff - they were even talking of putting up a new telegraph pole). I know it took him a lot of effort and a bit of time to get his old account reactivated whilst it was all sorted out.

Could this be a contributing factor I wonder?

I'm also concerned with Jen expecting, if something untoward has happened there then both her and Dean may be abscent!

Whats the relation between Vaughan Edwards and Dean Edwards?

[I'm also concerned with Jen expecting, if something untoward has happened there then both her and Dean may be abscent!]

I've had this thought too. All these problems started about the time her pregnancy became known. Anything could have happened so I just wish people would back off a little until the facts are known. I for one would feel like an idiot for going on about this if their problems were caused by complications around the pregnancy.

/Fredrik

[Just a thought: many people who aren't terribly familiar with computers confuse email, web and general internet access.]

That seems to be true in this case, judging from their communications.

[Could it be that BTD's "email problems" are infact basic connection problems from their office?]

I think the problem is that (for the past 2 weeks) when they tried to view TMP, they got an error message about an illegal character in a particular block of code.

[I'm also concerned with Jen expecting]

That could explain the lack of comment from Dean or Jenn, but Vaughan and John Olsen have been communicating.

I think that the problem is not that they have a bad internet connection; I think the problem is that there is a distinct lack of moral fortitude at the company.

The lack of communication is due to the realization that they were caught perpitrating a fraud!!!

You know it is so sad that folks feel they have to hide behind an email address and an "on line persona" FTR I always sign my emails, postings to e-groups etc. Someone once said never said or write anything you would not sign your name to. Good advice.
VR
James Mattes