"Man-to-Man Samurai Combat Skirmish Rules?" Topic

Are there any rules sets that are a bit more tactical in nature, and permit man-to-man duels/combat with various weapons, e.g. samurai swords, two-handed fighting styles, naginatas, kusarigamas, etc.?

Ideally, one that has an accurate basis for various possible martial arts moves and tactics is preferred, including even unarmed combat, e.g. karate, judo, etc. techniques.

A set where attack and defensive moves are chosen by the players would be most interesting, but a card-based system might be best to help speed play.

I'd like a set where more skilled opponents are better than their less skilled opposition as well.

A RPG would probably be best for this, but not sure I want an RPG, except for the possibly more detailed combat system, improving abilities through training/fighting, and weapons choice options.

Thoughts?

Ideally, one that has an accurate basis for various possible martial arts moves and tactics is preferred, including even unarmed combat, e.g. karate, judo, etc. techniques.

Forget Hollywood. Judo, karate, and aikido all date from the late 19th/early 20th century. There are older schools of unarmed combat – jujutsu for instance. They wouldn't be of much use against a man wearing armour and competently wielding a katana, unless he was taken completely by surprise and outnumbered. Trust me on this.

I know you wrote that you don't want an RPG, but if you can find a copy FGU's 'Bushido' is worth a look. Even better is their older game 'Land of the Rising Sun'.

There are no sets that I know of that go into that much detail, even Bushido doesn't give you choices of where and how to attack … I had a sword fighting set years and years ago which let you choose between attacks/defences. Each player chose one card and revealed them at once.

Closest in a miniatures set that I have seen is where players get to choose whether to defend/parry or attack and which have special rules for grappling and disarming weapons etc. Most decent sets have differences for better skill levels etc.

Have a look at "Bushi No Yume" by Rich Jones. It's based on the Flying Lead rule set by the same author and published by Ganesha Games. For more info go to:

link

Bushi No Yume is based on the Flying Lead rule set, which is itself based on Song of Blades and Heroes?!? Ganesha Games does not have this on its web site that I could find…

I think this is something Rich Jones (Surferdude) did separately…

Dale

Since Surferdude IS Rich Jones, I'm gonna assume his game doesn't have the detail you want.

If you want a short game, use the combat rules from "Stalking the night Fantastic" -- a friend and I gamed out a fight with chainsaws to test the blade combat rules in an arena based on my room in the barracks. It went something like this…

"Okay fans, our duelists have taken their positions standing on their bunks, doing a fair bit of damage to those hospital corners, and they are revving up for a fight. Whoops, Soba fell off. Never mind, he's got back into position.

To the west, it is Sergeant Soba, a giant of a man, his lack of dexterity and grace unmatched except for his lack of looks. Soba has an 18-inch McCullough with a chain brake.

to the east, a fighter of no great skill, and no gentleman. Sergeant Haze. Haze wields a 21-inch Husqvarna.

There's the horn, the ref retreats into the space beside the fridge. Haze and Soba flail away at each other, grinding blades together with a fearsome crash. Soba falls off again, a yellow flag halts the action.

The horn is sounded and Soba takes a swing and a miss. Haze chops soba in the shoulder, THAT's gonna leave a mark. Soba almost dropped his saw. Haze follows up with a wide swing, almost falls off, but score the hat trick, neatly removing Soba's hat, head, and Buddy Holly glasses too.

The WINNAH and new cham-PEEN, Sergeant Haze! Back to you in the studio."

Hi
Haven't got into the self promotion zone yet :)

Like I pointed out I doubt any set has the level of detail the OP wanted in any easy form to play. Bushi no Yume allows two types of attack type – normal and concentrated – the concentrated being where one is looking at hitting in a specific way or kyusho (nerve/weak point etc). Once hit a lot of the weapons and abilities let the winner (combat is deemed to be simultaneous) choose what happens (if they rolled well enough) – so some weapons/abilities let the winner disarm or tangle/wrap the opponent etc.
Weapons have different ranges at which they are most efficient etc and the skill of the wielder has an effect of course. There is also mechanisms in their for making the action fit a particular genre – play in the historical mode and two equal skilled samurai in full armour are going to be grinding away at each other quite a while until one gets lucky. Play in chanbara or fantasy mode with 'exploding' sixes and the more dynamic abilities and it will be a lot more bloody!
Ninja have different stats – use them in their best form and a very small group will cause a LOT of problems – play them in 'hollywood' mode and you can have 30 or so swarming over the samurai and getting hacked to bits :)

Will not go into too much detail etc.

So all in all it meets a lot of the criteria but wasn't fully what he wanted (but as he has got a set now he might chime in anyway) – but then so has some other rules, the free swordplay from THW can be adapted to sam stuff … the Yojimbo rules (might be Cpt responsible for those in fact) are another set which look promising …

BnY are based on Flying Lead not SOBH (which is why I did them myself) which has a different combat mechanism from SOBH (the combat ability is seperate from weapon ability/factor as where in SOBH it is all rolled into one, armour is factored seperately as where in SOBH it again is all rolled into the same combat stat etc).

Rich J

BnY are based on Flying Lead not SOBH (which is why I did them myself) which has a different combat mechanism from SOBH (the combat ability is seperate from weapon ability/factor as where in SOBH it is all rolled into one, armour is factored seperately as where in SOBH it again is all rolled into the same combat stat etc).

So BnY uses the SBH activation mechanism? I see the above as a refinement of the combat system, just as I see FL made refinements to group orders.

Thanks for the information, and apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.

Dale

It uses the same activation system as Flying Lead yes … but again it is changed slightly as to what happens on certain rolls – it is possible to get 4 actions and is also possible to go down in Kyu (quality)due to horrendous activation rolls.

The huge differences are the ways in which weapons and armour are worked and the fact most characters have a bujutsu (combat) of 2 or 3 then add the weapons (certain weapons being better than others in some situations etc)

Concentrating your hit is more important than in SOBH as often it is the only way to get a result in evenly matched fights – the combat result mechanism is different even from FL as there is no difference between winning by an odd or even die roll anymore … playtesters found they preferred the new way as it made the weapon effects feel better.

Rich

I shall have to look for a copy of BnY.

You may want to look at Yojimbo from JC Figures; jcfigures.com/YOJIMBO.html . I haven't had a chance to get many games in, but it matches your criteria. The regular rulebook (non pdf) should be released soon.

there is no difference between winning by an odd or even die roll anymore … playtesters found they preferred the new way as it made the weapon effects feel better.

No crying about that from this quarter. I much prefer one or the other.

Thanks for the information. I shall have to pick up a copy.

Dale

An RPG that does handle many types of martial maneuvers and weapon styles plus can reflect trained tactics such as Iaijutsu would be the Hero System. I will state right up front it has a steep learning curve but the pay off is a very flexible system. There is a "Ninja Hero" supplement that discusses how to apply the genre and a martial arts supplement that gives very intense rules for any form of martial arts you can think of.

Is that Hero Force?
Can't seem to find it.

Oh, you want some wire-fu stuff.

Take a look at Exalted. Just ignore the magic. All you need is the core rulebook, but some of the supplements would make good additions. There's even mass-combat rules in there (treat a unit as something 'worn' by their commander).

Combat is *different* in Exalted, though. No turn sequence to be seen, rather that everyone moves at the speed of their weapon. This means that sometimes people will get to act twice before the other guys act once. It's nasty, brutal, and generally pretty quick.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I really appreciate it.

Bought Bushi, and Bushido. FGU has $18 USD reprints/downloads(?) available of the latter now. Beats $147, or so, on eBay.

I'll have to check out Yojimbo ad the others as well when time permits.

Is there a review, or more info on Yojimbo anywhere?

I'd like to know more about it, since the page for it didn't have much info.

Yojimbo (lite) is a free download at present from their site.

Ah, I didn't realize that.

Off to check that out.

Thanks for the tip.

Hmmm, I think it's $5.00 USD now, since I didn't see a link to a free set.

Mmmm maybe it always was … sorry … might not have computed … got them but thought they were free, but I could have paid $5 USD and can't remember …

Got the rules and they look quite good Rich. Thanks.

The Bushido rules also look interesting, but there are so many different character values, and few/no examples, that getting to grips with these may be a bit more time-consuming.

Remember Bushido is a full blown Role Play game … the combat is designed to be fairly time consuming from what I remember … spent most of my mid teenage years playing it but wouldn't have the time now really.

There was also a game called 'Ninja in the Night' which was a role play game as well which was really good fun (more modern ninja stuff) and had a good combat system … but was extremely prolonged I remember.

Rich