"D&D makes you a pervert?" Topic

Mr FBI man said today on TV, alot of sexual predators, perverts, deviants and serial sex offenders play Dungeons and dragons.. he went on for a while explaining why this is but I was trying to fit a Hasegawa Huey together that didnt want to fit...so I wasnt paying much attention anyway I think he said it comes down to most sexual offenders use it too live out there fantasies...

So if you gonna be naughty burn those box sets 1st.

Yep I saw it too.

I was amazed anybody still thought like that .

I bet there are more Perverts who don't play D&D than there are who do .

Do they show this stuff in court as evidence of guilt ?

Stupid . Stupid .

Mind you, Hasegawa Hueys thats a different story :0)

Doesnt surprise me to hear some Religous nut saying playing D&D makes you a satanist etc.. but some " educated " FBI dude coming out with crap like that is bad news..

So if I play Vampire or Call of Cthuhlu I´m okay? I´m only dangerous if I play D&D...I guess I won´t be killing anyone soon then :-)

It's rather like some anti-religious nut claiming that all clergy are perverts and child abusers.

Considering the miniscule percentage of the population that is clergy (or D&D players, for that matter), I daresay there are waaaaay more non-clerical and non-D&D pervs out there.

Doesn't mean they don't exist, but the cause and effect just aren't there, ya know what I mean Vern?

So if I lived in America and got stopped for a traffic violation I would get the death penalty because I once spit roasted a fellow gamer cos she tried to steal my treasure. it would be worth it cos she tasted damn good with chilli sauce.

Well Liberals think owning a Gun makes you a criminal. It's all in your perspective. A Control Freak is a Control Freak.

I own Guns AND a D&D 1st Ed set. I guess I'm a Perverted Criminal.

FBI...Educated? Come on, were talking government organization here.

Rodrick

So if I buy the DM's guide on Amazon, Matrix will go off in John Fascrofts office and they will take me in.

Does selling figs make me like the pusher?

Have the Fumbling bunch seen the miniatures that accent the game?

Apparently a minister has updated the old Chick tract, this time targeting Demon: The Fallen from White Wolf. In the new version, role-playing games supposedly lead to sexual perversion, drugs and Satanism…

PDF link

The group claims the art for the pamphlet was drawn by an ex-White Wolf artist. Oddly enough, the most devilish-looking character in the entire pamphlet is the minister at the end.

Might be a source/the source for some of the paranoia out there…

Paranoia! Now there was a game.

How does D&D make one a pervert, a lot of the people I played D&D with had a hard time picking up chicks in the first place never mind getting them to do anything actually perverted.

Personally, I think the FBI got it backwards. I had killed dozens of people, and finally started playing D&D so I could find a worthy opponent. Nothing like a (smart) vampire to thin the D&D world out a bit.

I thought it was catholic seminary that made you into a pervert, now they say its DanD??

Those scrabble nuts are pretty unsavory. I think the whole Milton Bradley company is a cover for slave trading, goat killing, Satan loving nut balls.

Also people who "play chess" (code for Satan worshipping)seem pretty smug about their "game" when its obvious they love Satan.

And ever notice the inbred and inhuman quality of pro athletes?

Why are all the Chinese Olympic athletes identical twins?

You think his angle on D&D is crazy…check out his site and his views on the Catholic church!

I quote from his site Under the section "about us" ( you have to go to his congregations main page-

father-ramos.com

This Week:
Pastor "Father" Ramos discusses the Catholic Church and the 68 Million deaths its evil has caused throughout the world! You won't read this in the history books! Father Ramos also discusses why he has chosen to reclaim the Holy tile"Father" from Catholocism.

Spelling errors are his, not mine ( the nutbar even spelled Catholicism wrong-someone needs a talk with the OFM! ) .

Wow! This guy is really, REALLY scary! I mean, he is a walking stereotype of the Jim Jones zealot type. I bet he does group exorcisms for victims of occult/satanic rituals too!

This guy sends shivers down my spine. Even more than the creepy looking minister in the cartroon!

Anyone else get kinda of excited when the girls started to go lesbian in that tract?.....no?....just me?.....okay...

Wasn't J. Edgar Hoover a cross-dressing pervert? Wasn't that documented for posterity? Didn't he have something to do with the FBI..? ::grin::

I only terrorize bad spellers here on TMP, and occasionally the Yahoo groups I infest. I do not seek adventures and dragons to slay in foreign websites.

It's good to see that us Catholics and D&D players are hated equally by the same nutjobs.

BTW, is it true that I can get arrested in Nova Scotia for calling a loony a nutjob?

G Gordon Liddy insists that the whole story about J Edgar Hoover being a cross dresser can be traced to one woman, a gangster's Moll who had been arrested by the FBI. Having said that, the story is too good to not be true. :^)

While reading the "sermon" I was surprised to find the following:

"The more perversion you can ascribe to involvement with role-playing the better. You may even wish to fabricate some of your own, to better illustrate the point to your specific at-risk individual."

I wonder which of the examples he used of the evils of rpg's were fabricated?

I particularly liked the one about the D&D player from Montana, as that is where I lived when I got into 2nd edition. Do I have to get a sex change operation or is it optional? If I do get a sex change, do I get extra bonuses when I create my next character?

All kidding aside (which I rarely resort to...), I really have to agree with Velbor above--I can't believe law enforcement still uses the classic BS about D&D and nutjobs. I'd love to see what public information is available from the Feds (via the Freedom Of Information Act) that outlines statistics/correlations of D&D to deviants.

I wasn't thinking about D&D when I did that thing with the gerbil. No... wait a minute... ::ha ha::

-D

Recent findings confirm that 99.9% of all criminals have the so called “X” chromosome. Furthermore of this group 99.9% require oxygen to survive. Fortunately it has been confirmed that all criminals in America today will one day die...Crime doesn’t pay.

"Wasn't J. Edgar Hoover a cross-dressing pervert? Wasn't that documented for posterity? Didn't he have something to do with the FBI..? ::grin::"

Good point. But he didn't play D&D, so it was all okay.

Jack Chick loves you.. try googling that wonderful man and his religious tracts..

It did me!

I have the original chick comic on rpgs if anyone wants a copy I can email it to you. Great fun. My local game store used to keep a stack of them on the counter.
(Games of Berkeley)

So Daryl, what was the original story about that you were half-watching when the Agent said this nonsense?

Fabricating falsehoods about perversion & D&D is ok. Wow. I guess ol' "Father" Ramos was absent the day they talked about how lying was baaaaaaaaad. For that matter looks like he was dozing when they talked about how the size of the sin don't matter, it'll nuke you all the same, spiritually speaking--and that includes lies.

Kinda hard to take him seriously. But then he is clergy, and must ipso facto be a child abuser and pervert. :)

(Note: that's a satiric joke. I happen to think most clergy is dedicated, caring, and "good folks". Of course all you ever hear about is the fruitcakes.)

The whole ritual satanic abuse thing was a big fad in some law enforcement circles years ago. The McMartin preschool case inspired a lot of wannabe cultural crusaders who apparently believed there were organized armies of perverts trying to prey on the innocent.

As I recall, a small group of evangelical speakers gave a large number of seminars to law enforcement groups urging them to take the satanic threat seriously. Of course D&D was just one of their many bogus warning signs of satanic involvement, along with certain music, 'goth' clothes, etc. Is your teenager less communicative these days. Hasn't cleaned his room lately? The only rational explanation is that he's in the clutches of a satanic cult . . .

Many cops were tricked into believing it was true, or were pressured by their true-believer superiors into arresting people for serious crimes just because they fit the profiles.

This was back when many normal people really thought lots of children were being mysteriously abducted all around them. The number of supposed cases of satanic child sacrifice ran into the many thousands. When people slowly started to see that those numbers didn't add up ('hmm, no one's actually missing from our local school') the whole crisis just faded away and the perpetrators moved on to their next money-making attention-grabbing hoax.

Strange to see someone in the FBI still pushing an outdated hoax. Maybe he didn't get a memo. Maybe he's deliberately blowing smoke out his bum to distract attention from some real issue.

The Tract and the FBI are two separate things. Let's keep them separate.

The Tract alleges that DnD (and like games) turns you into a Satanist. Bogus, unproved, and probably unprovable. They deserve our ridicule.

However, the FBI thing is entirely different. They DON'T allege that DnD turns you into a pervert. They are merely making the observation that many serial sexual predators play DnD. There's no correlation, nor is there any claim of a correlation -- just an observation, which may be very true.

Claiming that the FBI alleges a causal link between DnD and sexual predation is just as witless (and full of bad logic) as the claim that there is a causal link between DnD and sexual predation.

"D&D makes you a pervert?"

Nah, I was a pervert first.

Love those nude D&D minis.

I love playing D&D in the nude. LOL

jizbrand wrote: "Claiming that the FBI alleges a causal link between DnD and sexual predation is just as witless (and full of bad logic) as the claim that there is a causal link between DnD and sexual predation."

Yet there's fallacy in your presumed logic for failing to recognize that the FBI spokesperson did in fact mention this observation in the guise of an "Alleged Certainty"--a classic logical fallacy tactic which does indeed casually suggest a link between D&D and sexual predation.

See, now, you had it right the first time.

IGNORE THEM. Concentrate on your Huey/latest character sheet/salacious miniature. It's more important than this...person, and will probably be around longer to boot. (Well, maybe not the character.) Don't stoop to their level; their game has rules that they apply only to themselves, and they will not allow you win. I don't buy their claim to be ever growing; this level of Xenophobia and Neophobia will turn them into an ever-shrinking cult that will, sooner or later, disappear.

I've never run into a Circle that was out to hurt people, but know plenty of Christians that begin frothing at the mouth should they hear the word "Wicca".

Some Specific Points concerning Mr. Ramos:
"Listening to accounts of the role-players’ games is either the height of tedium (it must be said, pardon my air of judgment)..."
Yes, they can be tedius, not unlike your prattle. (On the gripping hand, there is the gazebo story which I've always thought to be pretty entertaining...)

“If God intended for you to act like a demon, he would have made you a demon, Jenny”
Who says he didn't? Do you know the mind of god?

"Additionally, role-playing games teach that violence is an acceptable and even admirable way of solving problems."
Yes, unlike say, David or Solomon, or how in general one should treat Caananites, Philistines, or people residing in Sodom or Gomorrah...Never did figure out why it was part of God's Greater Plan that Lot should offer his daughters to a mob so that a couple of Angles might go unmolested.

This is the best part:
"I plan to attend the GenCon Game Fair, a gathering of role-playing cultists, pagans, Libertarians and heretics from around the world, to preach the Word directly and expose these dangerous fiends for what they are. Armed with my faith and a tract that puts forth the truth about role-playing and Demon in particular, I will turn White Wolf’s own war against it."
How long do you suppose he lasted? (This drek was spewed forth in June 2002.) As long as the normal attendees? Anybody here know if this zealot did in fact show up?

As to the 68 million number: In all fairness, most organized religions have periods of...excess. Christianity is hardly unique in this -- it's just been around for a while and had ample opportunity to rack up some pretty big numbers. It would be interesting to know how that figure would compare with, for example, Hinduism, Chinese Legalism, some of the more sanguinary civilizations in the Central and South Americas, or 20th C. Communism. It would also be interesting to know how Mr. Ramos created this value. (Research and analysis, or his favorite number for the week?)

Besides, I don't know of any hardcore gamers that would spend money on estacy; they'd use the cash to buy more books...

"You do that after every game?"

"Not all the time. Sometimes we have sex instead of doing drugs."

Man, I've joined up with the wrong gaming circles. All we ever did was watch Chappele's Show after we were done...

I only play AD&D Mass Battles, so that would make me an advanced mass pervert. That's a lot of title to live up to! Can't wait for the local police station to open so I can turn myself in to protect the neighbourhood. I'll let you have my new forwarding address as soon as they allow me to get close to a computer again.

Yeah, I only ever end up at the diner drinking coffee after my games. Of course, my group is all male and we are all married so the sex and drugs thing might not go over so well. Guess we won't ever become demons after all. sigh.

Wow - I thought we were beyond this crazyness.

I seem to recall that something like 50% of FBI agents are Mormons. Apparently, this is due to a backlash from the church in response to Hoover's attempts to infiltrate the Mormon church back when, so the church fathers have pushed for their own 'infiltration'. Gotta wonder if there is an 'agenda' at work here.

I can recall the news item on the ABC World News where Peter Jennings told the audience solemnly that the FBI had a strong lead that the IT worker who went Postal and killed his boss and two co-workers after being sacked was part of a secret cult. Their evidence was "a sinister and threatening message" on the man's answering machine. They palyed it, and Jennings had his most gloomy Canadian stern look on afterwards.

The message was "Hello. Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they have me answering phones . . . "

Cult, yes. Sinister? Only to the FBI.

Anyone NOT know what the reference is to?

Well I was a DM & engaged in a normal relationship with - gasp! - a woman. Was I doing something wrong? Now, happily single, I play other types of RPGs (mostly Merc:2000). Oh no! One of my players is ten years old! Well, his parents are quite OK with that, so where's the problem? Afterwards we watch videos - Thunderbirds, or Richard Sharpe usually.
There are weirdos & perverts in ANY group of human individuals, but they are usually in the minority.

Hmm, Hasegawa. Always found them to be excellent models.

I'm back. The fellow at the desk just listened, shook his head, and kicked me out. I guess you're stuck with me for now... Perhaps I should have taken my amazon army?

I once got a girl who was at college with me to come and play RoleMaster with our group one evening as she was interested to see what it was all about. It must have corrupted her as she stayed at mine that evening and, well, the rest can be left unsaid.... ;-)

Alien - obviously also a pervert

Being a pervert makes you a pervert.

As for the "Father Ramos" website, check out the source code for father-ramos.com, and take a good look at the Meta tags.

Playing D&D doesn't make you a pervert. Watching plenty of Hentai does. (but then again, it's porn, the same thing all the rich guys in the huge expensive cars watch, so no Government agency will go after that...)

Check out the Pulling Report -
link

There are some very odd people out there – and they're not the ones playing RPGs…

I would rather my children grow up and join a gaming club than ....ohhhh Branch Davidians or Heaven's Gate or The People's Temple or The Eternal Grace Congregation Church or the Order of the Solar Temple....hmmmmm I seem to notice an interesting observation developing here and that is that the majority of these groups have done humanity a favor by culling the human herd of their own presence. Though not a religious zealot I am a firm proponent of the concept of Free Will or in the WICCAN concept of "Do What Thou Will But Harm None".

Since when has the FBI ever relied on "credible" information from "reliable" sources? I can't help but wonder if the D&D factions over in Iraq have stored the WMD with their gaming terrain under their gaming tables.

You meant we spent millions in the Gulf , when all we had to do was translate D&D into Arabic to bring about the moral decline and corruption of the youth of our enemies ?

Someone slipped up there .

Velbor they do play D&D...but they call it Jihad