"German Tank Yellow" Topic

Im sure this is an old chestnut for some of you guys, but as you can guess from my tag this isnt my main period so please bear with me!

Ive spent two days trying to research this and all it has done is get me totally confused.

I'm getting into 20mm WW2, but am totally confused by German tank colours (Eastern front).

I know the Jerries went from Panzer Grey to Yellow base coat, but not sure when, nor which is the best Yellow to use for Eastern Front/Normandy battles. Ive used Tamiya Dark Yellow ( as per the assembly instructions) on a 1/35 Tiger before now, and it looks quite dark and quite green for a yellow.

I like the mid war period, between Stalingrad and Kursk, before everyone went a bit silly with big guns and battleship armour. I hope to put in a KV1 or two….. so are the Panzers Grey or Yellow camo?

And what is it with the T34/76? So many different ones! Should I be using a specific T34 for 1942/3

Many thanks,

The official change over was, as I recall, February 1943

link

Yes, Feb of '43. Front line combat units would get repainted sooner, rather than later, so that by the Summer of '43 (aka Kursk) most if not all tanks would be repainted, and most APCs for that matter too…or at least I haven't seen any photographic evidence to the contrary. Rear area vehicles (aka trucks) might be gray till '45; they simply did not have a priority in repainting.

For me, I use Tamiya Dark Yellow, and think it looks fine. If it's a little too yellow for you, check out Polly Scale's version, which is much more tan. Avoid Testors Acryll, which IMHO is too green.

For T-34s, the model # is a good way to guess what models to use. So T-34/76s M1940-1942 (with flattened, smaller turret) and 1943 (with larger hex shaped turret) are suitable.

Damon.

You could get away with Panzer Grey until frbruary, as Frederick says. The change was not immediate, so you would see older tanks in panzer grey. New vehicles would come out of the factory in Dark Yellow.
Tamiya's Dark Yellow is a good approximation of the Dunkelgelb. It was intended to be used in Europe, not Africa. It is supposed ti have a greenish tinge.
For 20mm, you might want to lighten it up a little.

Another vote for Tamiya XF-60 Dark Yellow. Also has the advantage of being available in their spray can series as TS-3. For the 3 camo color use XF-60 base and then XF-61 Dark Green and XF-64 Red Brown.

I use Tamiya´s Dark Yellow, too. If you look at surviving samples of the colour (best are usually pertol cans since they were not repainted by museums and not stored in bright sunlight after the war) you find that the actualy colour is quite dark and greenish.
In German it is called Dunkelgelb nach Muster (Dark Yellow per sample). Obviously the first part declares that it should be dark. In the official describtion of the colour it says that it should have an olive tint and that producers should refer to the samples to get it right (hence nach Muster).

Cheers,

Burkhard

The change was not immediate, so you would see older tanks in panzer grey.

Actually the tanks painted in grey got a break up coat whenever possible of dunkelgelb applied in the field, so you'd see relatively few straight grey tanks by, say, Kursk.

It was applied in the field to break up the lines of the vehicle, and could be done with spots or waves, with an airgun or with a paintbrush. Here's one example, a Hanomag from LSSAH:

picture

If you are doing a specific unit, best to look that unit up in a book as they sometimes used specific breakup patterns.

Tamiya Dark Yellow is fine. Don't think twice.

Panzer Colors from Squadron is still an excellent book on the subject, byu the way.

Doug

Panzer Colors, so I understand, is also going OOP permanently. It's also (at least for Vol.1) has some issues with accuracy. Bruce Culver, one of the authors, posts to one of the modeling forums I'm on, and admits it was the best information they had in the mid '70s, but research has progressed. Still useful for photographs, and color interpretations. But I would look elsewhere for accurate painting schemes, especially since latewar the germans went through a wide variety of factory schemes, etc. See: panzerworld.net/colours

Damon.

This article by Battlefront is pretty good for shades of Dunkelgelb using Vallejo paints:

link

Thanks guys for all this super information, and so quick too! there are some real experts on here. And of course, why didnt I think of FOW webiste. Always good info on it, even though its not my scene as a game.

I think it will be mainly Tamiya yellow then, with a couple of earlier panzer grey vehicles with yellow highlights to break up the monotony.

I like the idea of spraying, although I havent used an airbrush before… are the Tamiya sprays fine enough to do a camo Red/Green over the yellow?

Finally, where the best place to get some transfers for both sides, and tank bedrolls, tarps, boxes etc in 20mm to stick on some of the tanks?

Thanks again chaps

IIRC, in the Army Group South area (steppes) many panzers came with a tropical (DAK) dark yellow paint job by '42. Not so?

I like the idea of spraying, although I havent used an airbrush before… are the Tamiya sprays fine enough to do a camo Red/Green over the yellow?

One word of warning: I often find the Tamiya spraypaints to be subtly different in shade compared to the bottles. I haven't used Dunkelgelb specifically as a spray, but definitely know Dark Green is slightly different, if it makes a difference.

I probably wouldn't try to spraypaint the camo schemes, as the pattern is to coarse. Mainly good for big jobs. That being said, since the schemes were field applied, the end result could vary depending on local equipment and talent of the crews(!). There's a fairly famous photo of StuGIIIF/8 "Erika" where the camo scheme was applied with sponges!

IIRC, in the Army Group South area (steppes) many panzers came with a tropical (DAK) dark yellow paint job by '42. Not so?

Yes, this is AFAIK correct.

Damon.

Something like 90% of wargamers who buy airbrushes give up on them within a month. Before you buy one, try one round a friends.

I seem to recall something about the AG South ones being repainted in the field workshops. Couldn't be sure though.

The orangey ochre paint faded pretty quick and in NWE often had green misted over. Then of course there's dust and mud. What with all that I reckon straight dark yellow would be relatively rare.
Straight from factory it'd be pretty similar to one of the old GW paint colours which would be available from coat d'arms.

One word of warning: I often find the Tamiya spraypaints to be subtly different in shade compared to the bottles. I haven't used Dunkelgelb specifically as a spray, but definitely know Dark Green is slightly different, if it makes a difference

If it is subtle, why worry about it. I am sure Der Fuhrer won't be inspecting your color matches.

Well, if you spray and then touch up with bottle paint, you'll notice that the two colors don't match!

Damon.

To make a Napoleonic analogy to match your name 1815 guy, the Dark Yellow used for late war tanks is darn similar to the Yellow Ochre used for Austrian Napoleonic gun carriages and limbers.

So if you have any paint left over from doing Austrian 12lber guns, you can use it on the Tigers.

If you do end up using an airbrush with Tamiya paints one quick trick I learned from the folks in the 1/35th scale armor crowd (yet another hobby of mine). Thin the paints with Tamiya Lacquer Thinner (with the yellow cap in the 250ml size) instead of their Acrylic Paint Thinner (X-20A)!

Several have done a much better job of explaining why the lacquer thinner works better then the acylic thinner although the Tamiya paints we are talking about are acrylic. Just be aware you want a WELL ventilated area!

As already mentioned while you can use TS-3 for the base yellow color you will want to either hand paint or use an airbrush for the camo colors.

"Finally, where the best place to get some transfers for both sides, and tank bedrolls, tarps, boxes etc in 20mm to stick on some of the tanks?"

Chieftain Models
Bolt Action
Company B
S and S Models

Skytrex
20/SP/A03 Assorted stowage strips (12 items) (pack 1)
20/SP/A02 Track links pack for up-armouring models
20/SPA/21 Sherman track links

GZG

25ACC-03 Stowage Boxes and Cans – ammo boxes, jerrycans,
Crew personal stowage GZG-25ACC-01

What about Flames of War panzer yellow spray paint? Has
anyone tried that? I've used their panzer gray and its
pretty close to the shade I've hand painted my other German
early war tanks. But judging from the painted tank next to
their spray can on the FOW website, the color seems a bit off.

Jerry

What about Flames of War panzer yellow spray paint? Has anyone tried that? … But judging from the painted tank next to their spray can on the FOW website, the color seems a bit off.

If they matched Vallejo Middlestone, that's a really green yellow. If they matched one of the other colors, it's more yellow.

I have some brush-painted halftracks and the 251/Cs are in the early yellowish color, the /1Ds are in Middlestone, and you can really see the greenish tinge in the Middlestone.

Your T.34's at Kursk should have the hexagonal turret with two hatches (Mickey Mouse) first produced in spring 1942.

Note the road wheel arrangement caused by a temporary shortage of rubber in the Soviet Union at that time that affcted production of some T.34's

T-34/76 Model 1943. 41st Guards Tank Brigade, 7th Mechanized Corps, Kursk, 1943. This vehicle and the rest of the brigade's tanks were marked with the slogan 'For Soviet Moldavia'. The air Identity marking used at this time was a white stripe on the turret roof.