"Wallachian Grenz troops at Arcole, in November 1796?" Topic

Hello, I'm new on this Forum!
I have a special interst concerning the order-of -battle of the Austrian army during the Battle of Arcole (15th-17th of November 1796). All the sources I studied said that Colonel Brigido's Brigade was composed of the fallowing Grenz troops: Carlstädter Grenz (1st Battalion ), Warasdiner Grenz (1st Battalion) and Banal Grenz (4th and 5th Battalions). These troops defended the famous bridge of Arcole.
Some other sources (mainly Amon von Treuenfest's work: Geschichte des k.k. Infanterie-Regimentes Nr.50, Friedrich Wilhelm Ludwig, Grossherzog von Baden. 1762 bis 1850 zweites Siebenbürger Romanen-Grenz-Infanterie-Regiments Nr.17.- Wien 1882 ), say that among the Grenz troops was also the 2nd Wallachian Combined Battalion (composed of different companies of the 1st and 2nd Wallachian Grenz regiments, nr. 75th and 76th ).
It seems that this unit fought on 15th of November at the Arcole bridge and next days was sent (with Sticker's Brigade) to defend the village of Albaredo.
Is this information correct? Did the Wallachian Grenz troops really fought at Arcole in November 1796?
Thank you for your comments.

I am not sure, but I was under the impression that no Siebenburgen units fought in Italy in the First Coalition as they got a hammering against the Turks. There may be some confusion with the Wallach-Illyrian of GR13? Charles described them as the worst troops in the army, always getting drunk!

For what it's worth, Wrede (vol 1) has the same note under IR46 and IR50 entries for 1792-97: the Wallachian grenz regiment supplied combined battalions 1792-7 and that the 1st fought in Germany, the 2nd and 3rd in Italy. This is presumably three combined battalions from the two regiments. Seems the 2nd battalion was at Arcole and Albaredo, and there should be a 3rd combined battalion floating around somewhere in Italy.

Their presence in Italy during the First Coalition wars is confirmed by several sources. The 2nd and the 3rd Wallachian (Sibenburger) Grenz Mixed Battalions, composed of compagnies of the 75th and 76th Regiments (later 16th & 17th Wallachian Grenz Regiments) fought at the battle of Rivoli. The 1st Wallachian Grenz Composite Battalion was sent in Germany in 1796-1797.

The official history of the 50th K K Infantry Regiment, the successor of the 17th Grenz Regiment from 1851, written in 1882, said that Wallachian Grenzers fought at Arcole. However, all other sources recorded only Croat Grenze troops during that battle.

Thank you for any information concerning this inquiry.

Hello Vendome,

I never seen Alfons Wrede's work: Geschichte der K. und K. Wehrmacht. Did he mentioned the certainly presence of the 2nd Wallachian Grenz Combined Battalion in Arcole, on 15th-17th of November 1796?

Thank you.

Wrede's work is in many major libraries if you can access one. It is a 5 vol work covering all the arms of the army, although incomplete.

Mind you, I should read my own work! There is a battalion of Wallach (Sieben) Grenzer at Wurzburg in 96 along with a Szeckler battalion. I do notice that they are both unnumbered. There is a problem with the confusion between GR 13 and the Siebenburgen regiments. Maybe there is more in Vanicek?

Hello Dave,

Thank you for the information… I live in Bucharest and I'll try to find a copy of this work at the National Library… I hope they have Wrede's work… I red Fr. Vanicek's work (Specialgeschichte der Militärgrenze…), on the Google, but the 4th volume who presents the Italian campaign, is not available. It seems there is a copy at the Academy Library in Bucharest. I'll go there next week to see what he said about Arcole…
However, it would be great if you could check this information in your Wrede's work…

Thank you,

Horia

It may be a while as I am some way north of London, but I will have a look.

However, I have found some old notes I took from Kriegsarchiv docs, as part of a proposal to write an Osprey on Arcole & Rivoli:

The Disposition for the attack dated 1st November 1796 (KA doc) lists 6 columns, which I think are Davidovich's men, forming the Tyrol Korps coming in from the north:

I) GM Loudon
Gyulai Freikorps (2) 400
3rd Batt IR de Vins 1100
1st Batt IR Jellacic 1153
2nd Batt IR Mittrowsky 900
(illegible) Dragoons 211
Erz Johann Dragoons (1) 151

II) GM Oksay
Gyulai Freikorps (4) 700
2nd Batt IR Latterman 820
3rd Batt IR Latterman 820

Oberst Weidenfeld
IR Preiss (2) 1237
Combined Grenadier batt 160

9. Erdody Hussars (2 ˝) 227
Uhlans (1 ľ) 236

III) GM Sporck
3rd Karlstadt District Grenzer (4) 814
Gyulai Freikorps (2) 400
Mahoney Jaeger (1) 100
IR M. Wallis (1) 1246

IV) GM Vukassovich
Wallach-Illyrian Grenzer (3) 399
IR14 Klebek (2) 1436
IR Brechainville (1) 993
IR23 Toscana (1) 681
Mahoney Jaeger (2) 233
Uhlans (1/4) 30

V) Also GM Vukassovich
Szluin Grenzer (2) 494
1st Warasdin/2nd Banal Grenzer (1) 207
Combined Karlstadt District Grenzer (1) 152
Mahoney Jaeger (1) 100
9. Erdody Hussars (1) 120
IR42 Erbach (1) 566
IR Erz. Anton (1) 1319

VI) Oberstlt. Seillen
1st Batt IR Latterman 696
Ogulin Grenzer (2) 252
9. Erdody Hussars (1/2) 74

Some bits from the Alte Feldakten Italien 1796 XI seem to cover the Friaul Korps:

GM Hohenzollern: A/guard commander at Caldiero:
Hohenzollern: 4 batts 8 sqdns, 8 guns
Oberst Sticker 4 batts, 1 sqdn, 8 guns
Reserve 10 guns
Total: 8000 men. The guns with the brigades would be 3pdr battalion guns.

FML Provera at Villanuova:
GM Brabeck 4 batts, 4 guns (4000)
GM Schubirz 5 batts, 10 guns (5000)
GM Liptay 4 batts, 1 sqdn, 8 guns (3,500)
GM Brigido 3 batts 1/2 sqdn, 6 guns (1583)
GM Mittrowsky 4 batts, 1/2 sqdn, 8 guns (3,500)

So, looking at the strengths given in the AFA for 1/11, I think some of the layout is: (there is one figure for each unit, so some are apportioned where split up)

Hohenzollern's A/guard:
Hohenzollern:
2nd Batt Banal District Grenzer (1) 1358
3rd Battalion IR32 S. Gyulai (1) 1099
Mahoney German Jaeger (1 co) 176
Gyulai Freikorps (1 co) 117

Sticker:
4 batts – probably four Karlstadt/Banal Grenzer battalions as that makes sense for A/guard duties and the rest of the reserve guns were 3pdrs.

Their combined cavalry:
9th Erdody Hussars (6) 529
8th Wurmser Hussars (2) 260
2nd Erz. Joseph Hussars (5th sqdn) 196

Reserve guns include: 2 x cavalry guns

GM Schubirz:
IR4 Deutschmeister(2 batts) 1324
IR36 U Kinsky (1 batt) 882
+ 2 batts

GM Liptay (Gavasini)
IR51 Splenyi (2nd & 3rd Batts) 2190
+ 2 batts (incl. a Banat Grenzer batt)
8th Wurmser Hussars (1) 130

GM Mittrowsky
IR 53 Jellacic (3rd & 4th batts) ??
IR7 W. Schroeder (1 combined batt) 934
3rd Siebenburgen-Wallach District Grenzer (1) 884
IR4 Deutschmeister (2 cos) 260

9th Erdody (1/2) 50
2nd Erz. Joseph (3/4) 144

2 x 6pdr, 2 x 3pdr

The 3rd Siebenburgen Wallach is with Mittrowsky and GR13 Wallach-Illyrian is in the main army, but no sign of the 2nd batt of Siebenburgen Wallach.

Hello Dave,

Thank you for the information. It seems that the austrian military records say nothing about the Siebenburger Wallach Grenz Battalions at Arcole, in November 1796.

However, the official history of the 2nd Sibenburger Wallach Grenz Regiment, said that the 2nd and 3rd Combined Battalions actually fought at Arcole and Albaredo:

postimage.org/image/spk6x4qs

I'm very eager to see what Vanicek's and Wrede's works say about this subject…

Cheers,

Horia

I am again impressed at the depth of knowledge of fellow TMPers. Bravo.

Wallachen Grenz,

For Wrede try:

Vol 1: link
Vol 2: link
Vol 3a: link
Vol 3b: link
Vol 4: link

Unfortunately vol 5 is not online. The entries for IR46 and IR50 in vol 1 described the organization of the Wallachian Grenz regiments and where they fought, but no specific battle honors. Vol. 5 could have this info, but I don't have vol 5.

Vanicek vol 4: link

See page 48. Vanicek mentions 4 grenz battalions under Brigido but doesn't specify these as the Siebenbürgische-Romanen.

Vendome

I have had vol3s for some time, but don't seem to be able to download the others, are you sure they are downloadable?

Hello Vendome,

Thank you for the links. Unfortunately they are not downloadable… It seems the only solution is to find them in a library…

I hope to skim Vanicek's 4th volume this week…

Cheers,

Horia

I guess they're only downloadable in the US then. Bummer.

OK I will try again tonight, US only is not normally a problem.

thanks

A note from Steve Smith, formerly of this parish (until the Idiot Tendency got at him) includes:

Treuenfest. Geschichte des k. k. Infanterie-regimentes Nr. 50, Friedrich
Wilhelm Ludwig, Grossherzog von Baden, 1762 bis 1850 zweites Siebenbürger
Romanen-grenz-infanterie-regiment Nr. 17. 1882:

link

I cannot get any images in the UK, but maybe it works in the US?

Hi I am Enrico Acerbi

I can confirm the presence of Walachian troops at Arcole and Caldiero

from I Walach – Orlath (Commander Oberst Johann Caballini von Ehrenburg) and II Walach – Naszod (Commander Oberst Johann von Devchich) in 1796 had been organized three Combined battalions:

Comb. Grenz Btn. 1 Walach (Oblt Ignaz von Stojanich) was in Germany at Kreuznach – Sulzberg – Lahn

Comb. Grenz Btn. 2 Walach (Graf Carl Woestenroedt) was at Arcole, was in second line with Anton Schubirz

Comb. Grenz Btn. 3 Walach (Maj. Joseph von Bohatsch) was at Arcole – guarding the rear front of baggage trains at Villanova (near Villabella) under major Miloradovic

15 November 1796 – ARCOLE (sources Streffleurs and KA)
FZM Freiherr Joszef Alvinczy von Berberek
Chief of Staff: FML Franz Ritter von Weyrother . (HQ at Gombion)
KK Jägers de Mahoney 4 coy 520
Stab Dragoner Rgt.: 1 Sqn. 200
Coy Pioneers 140

Reserve Artillery
1 Foot Battery 4 x 6pdrs.
1 Foot Battery 4 x12pdrs
1 Foot Battery 4 x 6pdrs.
1 Foot Battery 4 x12pdrs

Kav.Bde Oberst Carl-Christoph von Piacsek – 670
Rgt Uhlanen FML Johann von Mészáros (1/2 Esk.) Cmdr: Oberst Ezechiel von Mattyásowszky 60
Rgt 2nd Hussar Joseph Anton, Erzherzog Palatin von Ungarn: 4th Sqdn 110
Rgt Hussars GdK Graf Erdödy Johann Nepomuk de Monyorókerék et Monoszló (2 Sqns) 200
Horse Artillery : 1 section (2-6pdr)

Avant-garde d'Armée
Feld Brigade GM Fürst Friedrich Xavier Hohenzollern-Hechingen 3287
Rgt Hussars GdK Graf Erdödy Johann Nepomuk de Monyorókerék et Monoszló 100
KK IR 32 4th Battalion FML Sámuel Graf Gyulai von Maros-Nemeth 850
und Nádaska (cmdr: Obst-Liet. Postrehovsky)
KK IR 54 1st Battalion FML Carl Graf Callenberg 820
7th Komponiertes Carlstadt Grenzer Battalion Major Siegenfeld 817
Komponiertes Graf Samuel Gyulai I-II Btn 700
Foot Artillery : 4 sections (8-3pdr)

Right Wing Division FML Marchese Giovanni de Provera
Between Vago, Caldiero, Strŕ and Gombion – Order to attack Verona

Erste Treffen
Feld Brigade ADC Oberst Franz Sticker von Haymingthal 3538
Rgt Hussars GdK Graf Erdödy Johann Nepomuk de Monyorókerék et Monoszló 100
KK IR 57 / 2nd Battalion – FML Josef, Graf Colloredo-Waldsee 850
4th Komponiertes Banal Grenzer Bataillon 920
2nd Komponiertes Banal Grenzer Bataillon 806
3rd Komponiertes Banal Grenzer Bataillon 862
Foot Artillery : 4 sections (8-3pdr)

Zweite Treffen
Feld Brigade GM Freiherr Anton Schubirz – 4400
Rgt Hussars GdK Graf Erdödy Johann Nepomuk de Monyorókerék et Monoszló 100
KK IR 4 Combined Ist/IInd Battalion (Deutschmeister Regiment Wien) : (Veteran) 1160
KK IR 4 IV Battalion 1150
KK IR 36 / 3rd Battalion FML Graf Franz Ulrich Kinsky 860
2nd Komponiertes ‘Walachen' Grenzer Battalion 980
Foot Artillery : 4 sections (8-3pdr)

Left Wing Division FML Peter Vitus Quosdanovich
Between San Bonifacio, Soave and Castelletto.Order to attack Ronco and Zevio on the right Adige's bank.

Avant-Garde (will became Rear Guard)
Avant Garde Feld Brigade Oberst Graf Brigido 2988
at Arcole
Rgt 2nd Hussar Erzherzog Joseph Anton, 3rd Sqn (Rittmeister Harrucker) 150
6th Komponiertes Carlstädter-Szluiner Grenzer Battalion 976
5th Komponiertes Carlstadt Grenzer Battalion 1150
Foot Artillery : 1 section (2-3pdr)

Detached at San Bonifacio (Major Daniel Miloradovic)
3rd Komponiertes ‘Walachen' Grenzer Battalion 712

Erste Treffen
Feld Brigade ADC Oberst Lieut. Graf Aloys Gavassini – 4284
Rgt Hussars FML Dagobert Sigmund Graf Wurmser – 1st Sqn. 150
Rgt Hussars GdK Graf Erdödy Johann Nepomuk de Monyorókerék et Monoszló 160
(1 Sqn)
KK IR 51 FML Gabriel Splényi Freiherr von Mihaldy 2nd Battalion – Major Haslinger 700
KK IR 51 FML Gabriel Splényi Freiherr von Mihaldy – 3rd Battalion – Hauptmann Lang 834
4th Komponiertes Banater Grenzer Bataillon 1220
5th Komponiertes Banater Grenzer Bataillon 1220
Foot Artillery : 4 sections (8-3pdr)

Zweiter Treffen
Feld Brigade GM Adolph von Brabeck 3617
Rgt Uhlanen FML Johann von Mészáros (1 Eskadron) Cmdr: Oberst Ezechiel von Mattyásowszky 150
KK IR 25 1st-2nd-3rd Battalion FML Graf Ludwig Brechainville: 750
2nd Komponiertes Banater Grenzer Bataillon 1000
6th Komponiertes Banater Grenzer Bataillon 980
8th Komponiertes Warasdiner – Carlstädter Grenz Battalion (Hauptmann Horvatovic) 819
Foot Artillery : 4 sections (8-3pdr)
Foot Artillery : 3 sections (6-3pdr)

Reserve
Reserve Brigade General Major Freiherr Anton Mittrovsky 4054
at Montebello
Rgt Hussars FML Dagobert Sigmund Graf Wurmser – 1st Sqn. 150
KK Freiwillige Wiener Bataillon 3 coy 570
KK IR 53 Comb. 3rd 4th Battalions FML Johann Freiherr Jellacic de Buzim 619
4th Komponiertes Warasdiner Szluiner Grenzer Battalion 914
5th Komponiertes Warasdiner Carlstädter Grenzer Battalion 740
Foot Artillery : 4 sections (8-3pdr)
Reserve at Villabella with Train Baggages
4th Komponiertes Carlstadt Grenzer Battalion 980

Well, if Osprey ever take up my offer to do Rivoli …..

Rivoli has already been covered in Martin Boycott-Brown's brilliant title 'The Road to Rivoli' (pub 2001, 560 pages), which looks at Napoleon's early campaigns. He also has info and photos on his website, which are worth viewing. But another book covering Rivoli, no matter who writes it, would be most welcome and I'm surprised Osprey have not already done a series covering Castligione, Arcole and Rivoli. I'm sure Napoleon's great but hard fought early victories against the Austrians are equally as popular as the Emperor's great and hard fought victories against the same opponents during the 1809 campaign. The more books the merrier, in my opinion.

I agree

As I noted on the 97-7 thread, Keith Rocco is working on this at the moment

link

which prompted me to revive my (2008, but unanswered!) proposal for Rivoli. I always felt that MBB rather squeezed Rivoli into the end of his book, so an Osprey would fill that out and appeal to those, who want the colour maps etc.

I actually find the Austrians as my favorite enemy of France. You never kno what you will get from them with their different quality of leaders. You can beat the white uniform with nice vivid regimental colors. I would actually buy that book from mr. Hollins from osprey instead of being a cheapo buying used from amazon. Hopefully they will see the interest in this battle and italian campaigns

Looking at the Arcole OBs and the Rivoli one I put up on another thread, there is also scope for some more colour – some of the Grenzers were in the brown Hausmontur, there are Gyulai Freikorps and Wiener Freiwillige, facing the French in a "variety" of uniforms!

Looking at the Rivoli OB, there is

5th Column GM Furst Reuss
2nd Wallach Grenzer Batt 626
(3 cos each from GRs 16 & 17)
3rd Wallach Grenzer Batt 1169
(3 cos from GR16 & 1 from GR17)

so it looks like 2nd Battalion took quite heavy casualties in the Arcole campaign.

Here 3rd Wallachian was weaker

5th Kolonne FML Heinrich XV Fürst zu Reuß-Plauen
7 Btns, no cavalry 5329

Avant Guard Obrist Joseph Graf Joseph von Saint Julien
5th Carlstadt Grenz Battalion von Dossen 995
7th Carlstadt Grenz Battalion von Siegenfeld 734
IR 26/3rd Bn FZM Wilhelm Schröder Freih.von Lilienhoff 733

Hauptkolonne Major Graf Anton Schiaffinati
IR 36/3rd Battalion FML Graf Franz Ulrich Kinsky 598
IR 54/1st Battalion FML Carl Graf Callenberg 674
2nd Wallachisch Grenz Battalion Graf Woestenroedt 626
3rd Wallachisch Grenz Battalion von Bohatsch 969
Horse artillery 6pdr pieces 4 7pdr howitzer 2
Reserve artillery 2 6pdr guns, 2 12pdr guns and 2 7pdr howitzers.