Uesugi Kenshin | 10 Sep 2010 6:07 a.m. PST |
For the sake of definitions, lets say "Modern" counts as anything post-WWII. So then, which Modern or Sci-Fi rules best model suppresing fire? |
MajorB | 10 Sep 2010 6:21 a.m. PST |
Stargrunt II models suppressing fire. |
Battle Works Studios | 10 Sep 2010 6:46 a.m. PST |
SG2 models suppression from being shot at, whether effective hits are scored or not. That's different from other games' suppressive fire, which is generally "spray the enemy with random fire" shooting that has morale effects only, or a very, very low chance of inflicting casualties. SG2's suppression is a side effect (useful as it may be) not a deliberate tactic. Games with discrete suppresive fire mechanics that I've seen include AE WW2/Bounty and Defiance Vital Ground. AE WW2/Bounty suppression is a major tactic and may work too well, despite the fact that it has zero chance of inflicting hits no matter the circumstances – it allows even the most inept troops with rapid-fire or explosive weapons to force key enemy units to dive for cover, and a veteran or elite unit with the same weapons can pin down an entire opposing crew. The situation's exaggerated in Bounty because one of the alien races can effectively dual-wield SMGs, letting them crank out twice as much suppressive fire. Defiance uses templates and "zone" suppression, where the fire from a weapon may suppress or (if you're extremely lucky) injure troops that move into or loiter in an area under fire by a rapid-fire weapon that's deliberately spraying the area. This differs from both SG2 and the Darkson games because suppression fire is directed at an area, not a single unit. IIRC Vor may have done something similar, but it's been a long time and I may be wrong. Of the three, I suspect Defiance may be the most realistic approach and have the most tactical depth, but SG2's coincidental approach works pretty well in play too. |
Scorpio | 10 Sep 2010 6:54 a.m. PST |
In AE-WWII, commanders or certain special orders can mitigate the strength of suppression. Yes, it's a strong tactic, but it's not overwhelming. |
MajorB | 10 Sep 2010 7:18 a.m. PST |
In SG2, all fire is suppressive fire ("spray the enemy with random fire"). The most likely result of a fire combat action is that the target is suppressed. If you actually hit anyone, that is just a bonus. |
jizbrand | 10 Sep 2010 7:34 a.m. PST |
The very thing I was going to say! In SG2, suppression may be the goal and hits are the side effect; other times, hits may be the goal and suppression is the side effect. It depends upon what the player is trying to achieve. For sheer simplicity, by capturing both effects in the same mechanic without separate special rules, SG2 has my vote for suppressive fire. |
Grumpy Monkey | 10 Sep 2010 8:12 a.m. PST |
Disposable Heroes does suppression the same way, regardless if you hit the model, they still need to make a suppression check, after all your still being shot at. |
John the OFM | 10 Sep 2010 8:22 a.m. PST |
We are really getting quite detailed with our Poll Suggestions lately, aren't we? What's next? Best simulated rivets on 15mm 25th Century hovercraft? |
losart | 10 Sep 2010 8:49 a.m. PST |
Breaking News has suppression fire rules I'm proud of ;-) link |
Martin Rapier | 10 Sep 2010 8:52 a.m. PST |
Depends what you mean by 'suppressing fire' doesn't it. All fire is suppressive, it may also inflict casualties. WRG 1950-whatever does a decent job in that the main result of small arms fire is that the target is suppressed rather than killed, and it also bothers to model MG beaten zones properly so that you really can set up enfliading and overlapping MG fire arcs. I rather like the CDIV mechanism that ANY soft target fired at be HE is automatically suppressed (although suppression does not prevent fire or movement, just reduce them). I blagged that for my own rules. Both WW2 of course so out of scope for the OP. GBWW2 and Ian Drurys 'Combat 300' do a similar thing for artillery fire templates, all targets under the template are automatically suppressed (in the sense that they are blinded and cannot fire). |
Battle Works Studios | 10 Sep 2010 9:52 a.m. PST |
Best simulated rivets on 15mm 25th Century hovercraft? I'd give that one to Old Crow, I think. Just ahead of GZG and Brigade. :) In AE-WWII, commanders or certain special orders can mitigate the strength of suppression. Yes, it's a strong tactic, but it's not overwhelming. Used properly, it's a game-winning tactic. That's not unrealistic – but the fact that you stand no chance of inflicting casualties with suppressive fire is odd, to say the least. Since you target specific units with it, you can suppress one of two enemy units that are literally intermingled with one another without affecting the other unit at all ("I aim at the guys in the blue shirts), and (in Bounty) suppressive fire never accidentally pokes holes in spaceship hulls despite the fact that misses with aimed fire always test to depressurize. |
Fonthill Hoser | 10 Sep 2010 10:12 a.m. PST |
"Breaking News has suppression fire rules I'm proud of ;-)" Yes, Breaking News has a novel approach. Worth checking out. Hoser |
CPBelt | 10 Sep 2010 10:32 a.m. PST |
Breaking News looks like a good game. I may have found a system I like! |
doug redshirt | 10 Sep 2010 4:05 p.m. PST |
Disposable Heroes does suppression well. |
Rassilon | 10 Sep 2010 5:25 p.m. PST |
Suppression in SG2 is simple and effectively represents its affect on the battlefield. |
XRaysVision | 10 Sep 2010 6:08 p.m. PST |
Curious. Suppression fire can be used as a tactic. For instance, I was taught by my small unit tactics instructors how to "leap frog" advance fire teams. Team Alpha lays down suppression fire whilt Team Bravo advances, then they switch roles. In this way they steadily advance. On the other hand, as mentioned above, all fire is potentially suppressive. Getting shot at tends to make one lower one's head. Hence the result of recieving fire can be suppressive since it's hard to shoot back while ducking. So, as far as this thread goes, what's the question? Is what rules allow the aggressor to use a suppressive fire tactic? Or is it what rules allow the target to be suppressed as the result of receiving fire? Or both? |
Uesugi Kenshin | 11 Sep 2010 4:34 a.m. PST |
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Martin Rapier | 11 Sep 2010 12:54 p.m. PST |
I'd be surprised if there are any rules out there which DONT let you shoot with one element while advancing with the other. The real issue is, what effect does the fire have? Does it have to actually hit an enemy soldier to have any effect? Or does the mere fact of being fired at degrade the targets effectiveness? |
chronoglide | 12 Sep 2010 2:06 p.m. PST |
If you want to score hits in SG2, pile in the support weapons and condense fire into one action. If you want to go for suppression only, split fire across two actions and reduce the number of weapons being fired to the minimum to give you d4. |