"British Cruiser tanks, France 1940" Topic

With the release of FOWs 1940 cruisers, I was wondering how many of these tanks were in France during the 1940 campaign. I remember vaguely the armored division being involved in the defense of Callais. Also remember on paper this being a very large division (in tanks anyway). Anyone have any numbers off the top of their heads what formations fought in France, how many tanks total? Thanks for any help or a point in the right direction.

Well, a quick search on "BEF 1940 oob" yields this from this site: link

"HQ BEF
4/7 Dragoons: 28x Mk VI lt
13/18 Hussars: 28x MkVI lt

1st Armoured Reconnaissance Brigade
1st East Riding Yeomanry: 28x Mk VI lt
1st Fife and FOrefar [sic] Yeomanry: 28x MkVI lt

2nd Armoured Reconnaissance Brigade
5th Dragoon Guards: 28x Mk VI lt
15/19 Hussars: 28x MkVI lt

1st Army Tank Brigade
4th Royal Tank Regiment: 50x A10 cruiser, 5x MkVI lt
7th Royal Tank Regiment: 27x A10 cruiser, 23x Matilda I, 7x MkVI lt

1st Armoured Division
A mix of 143x cruisers (A9, A10, and A13), and 114x Mk VI lt.
Division consisted of:
2nd Armoured Brigade:
The Queen's Bays, 9th Queen's Royal Lancers, 10th Royal Hussars
3rd Armoured Brigade:
2nd Bn Royal Tank Regiment, 5th Bn Royal Tank Regiment"

So around 220 cruisers.

I think those numbers were pulled from this site link
cheers

1940 Armoured Division:
Consisting of-
2 Armoured brigades, each of 3 Armoured Regiments with 56 Cruiser Tanks a piece.
A Support Group of 2 Motor Battalions, 1 RHA regiment and a light AA/AT regiment.
Royal Engineers had 1 Field Squadron and 1 Field Park Troop.
There was also a Signals group.

This came to a total of:
10750 officers & men
475 light MG
364 2" mortar
254 Anti-tank rifles
16 25 pdr guns
24 40mm AA guns
649 motorcycles
88 Bren Carriers
602 vans/trucks
858 lorries/tractors
2 light tanks
36 close support tanks
304 cruiser tanks

WWII Databook

1st Army Tank Brigade
4th Royal Tank Regiment: 50x A10 cruiser, 5x MkVI lt
7th Royal Tank Regiment: 27x A10 cruiser, 23x Matilda I, 7x MkVI lt

Umm, no…. Matilda I not A10 cruiser, Matilda II not Matilda I – they were the sole infantry tank formation.

Dom.

Shirley, someone has this right online somewhere? I *think* Killer Woobie's link is correct.

Allen

I seem to remember that most of the support kit for these formations was stuck in the docks.

don't call me Surely.

Zalogas 'Blitzkrieg Armor Camouflage and Markings' has the numbers, as do the Bellona special issues on the various cruiser models.

Yes there were a few hundred, but 1st AD never fought as a complete formation and lost the lot in France. Many of the the formations were mixed cruiser/light units.

The defence of Calais was aided by a single mixed armoured regiment, 4th RTR, which was largely destroyed in a single battle with 10th Panzer Div.

You hear and read a lot about the Matildas at Arras, not as much about the cruisers. Had the feeling their combat was more fragmented. Neat looking tanks. Interesting the I tank vs cavalry ideas in both the Brit and French armies. The Germans seemed to have bypassed those two schools of thought.

Allen – yes, Killer Woobie's link looks at least in the right ballpark – the figures look they may well be the same as Zaloga, in which case there's the odd vehicle misplaced, but they're more or less right. The hellish part is (a) figuring out who had which carriers, and how many, in the recce formations, and (b) breaking down 1st armoured division into which types in which regiments and squadrons – I've yet to see a convenient breakdown of those anywhere, and never found the spare money and time to chase down all the relevant regimental histories and/or war diaries….

PRODUCTION figures from "British and American Tanks of WWII" by Chamberlain & Ellis:

172 Mk II (A10)
125 Mk I (A9)
65 Mk III (A13)
655 Mk IV (A13 mk II)

Doesn't say which ones were sent to France (surely only a few of the Mk IVs as most of these were produced after June 1940)

Zaloga's "Blitzkrieg" has it at 150 Cruiser Tanks in the 1st Armoured as of May 10th, but no further breakdown. Again, probably not ALL where in France at that time.

According to accounts in "Calais" by Cooksey, the the 3rd Batttalion RTR in action around Calais was slightly understrength with ~9 cruiser tanks in each A,B,& C squadron, with one A9 tank functioning at battalion HQ. Seemed to be a mix of A9 & A10s & A13s.

Also just found this quote on the Axis History Forum but there are no sources cited:

"Beside the battle of Arras, British tanks were e.g. involved in Abbeville and around Calais. The 3rd RTR (48 tanks of the 1st AD) was completely lost in Calais without achieving anything. The first attack on Abbeville was led by the 1st AD, which lost 120 tanks out of 165 (73% losses), the attack failed in only 2 hours. Most of the remaining British tanks were simply abandoned or lost due to mechanical breakdowns and could not be recovered and repaired in front of the advancing German troops. "

oh, and I just checked the online version of Ellis' "The War in France and Flanders" and found the relevant chapter concerning the tank action of 1st AD at Abbeville:

link

…and, here's the General orbat for the 1st AD on wikipedia:

link

-CH