Help support TMP


"Shadowrun new edition coming out" Topic


20 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please be courteous toward your fellow TMP members.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the SFRPG Message Board

Back to the SF Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

Science Fiction

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Ruleset


Featured Profile Article

Bone Decor

Would some inexpensive Halloween decorative items boost your fantasy or sci-fi terrain?


Current Poll


Featured Movie Review


2,519 hits since 24 Aug 2010
©1994-2026 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
28mmMan24 Aug 2010 7:34 p.m. PST

shadowrun4.com

I have all the other rule books and several of the supplements and I am not currently playing soooo I may not be picking the new edition up.

(clipped from wiki)
Fourth edition changes

With the new edition, major changes to the rules system were adopted.

Out of the original six attributes (Body, Quickness, Strength, Charisma, Intelligence, and Willpower), Quickness was split into Agility and Reaction, while Intelligence was broken into Intuition and Logic. A new attribute called Edge was introduced to replace Karma Pool. Instead of starting from a base, characters buy their Magic attribute like a normal attribute. The statistic originally called Reaction has had some of its functions taken over by the new attribute by the same name.

The initiative system was modified to affect only the order of actions, not the number of initiative passes. The number of initiative passes taken by a character is now determined solely by external influences, like implants, magic, and drugs. It is no longer possible for an unmodified character who is not under the influence of magic or drugs to have more than a single initiative pass, except through the use of Edge.

Several of the archetypes were modified. Deckers were merged with riggers and renamed hackers. Many distinctions between shamanic and hermetic magicians were removed, and the magic system was designed to allow many other variant traditions. Otaku — individuals who have the same roles and abilities as deckers, except without a cyberdeck — were changed into technomancers. With the addition of the Resonance attribute technomancers function like magic users in the matrix calling up sprites as opposed to spirits and dealing with fading as opposed to drain.

Skills were changed from the target number system to a "hits" system. The target number is fixed at 5; to make a skill test, a player takes a number of six-sided dice equal to the skill and its linked Attribute, and rolls them, counting the number of dice that show 5 or 6 as "hits". The number of hits is compared to a pre-determined amount (or Threshold) set by the GM for the roll. If the number of hits equals or exceeds the threshold, the roll is a success. This mechanic, not coincidentally, happens to very closely match the new World of Darkness system. In addition, dice pools were removed, eliminating most of the tactical allocation of dice during combat, spellcasting, hacking, and other activities. These changes were intended to speed up the resolution of skill tests and combat.

The "Rule of One" of previous editions has been changed. A "glitch" is when at least half of the rolled dice come up 1s. A glitch results in a minor inconvenience or setback for the player, though it does not necessarily mean failure as long as enough hits were still scored. However, if a person rolls a glitch while scoring no hits at all, it is considered a "critical glitch", and is substantially more serious or potentially even fatal.

Rules for combat, magic, hacking, and other activities were changed to accommodate the new skill system. The modified rules are typically similar in outline, but the details are necessarily different.

Since the rules in the Fourth Edition are mechanically dissimilar to those in earlier editions, balance issues differ between editions. Characters from previous editions do not easily convert to the new edition with their strengths and weaknesses intact.

There were a few changes to the fictional setting in the Fourth Edition. The main premises remained unchanged while the timeline advanced by five years. The largest change in setting was the addition of a global wireless matrix that allows people to have augmented reality displays: visual overlays on real-world scenes. This encourages hackers and technomancers to join their teammates physically rather than provide matrix backup from a remote location, a change designed to make coordinating and integrating online and real-world actions easier for the GM.

There were also other changes to Shadowrun society at large, as illustrated in the flavor text. For example, up to this point, cursing had been illustrated with a variety of colorful made-up words, such as "drek", "frag", and "slot". FanPro eschewed these in SR4 (to some player complaint, as many fans believed this added social color to the game[citation needed]) and decided to use their contemporary, real-world counterparts.

Fans of previous editions have often leveled accusations[citation needed] regarding the new magic rules as "causing magic to lose its flavor." In previous editions there were two baseline "traditions" for magicians—hermetic and shamanic—with other traditions making use of elements of either or both in new ways, such as voodoo houngans and mambos using largely shamanic elements but summoning unique loa spirits that could possess the summoner or serviteurs to work their powers in the physical world and mindless zombies that could be used for manual labor, cannon fodder, anything the summoner could think of. In SR4 the various traditions—and "styles" that were cultural, religious, or even simple flavor variations of a tradition—were standardized so each tradition learned and cast spells and summoned spirits (five per tradition, all drawn from a "pool" of standard spirits) the same way, causing magicians to be seen as the same regardless of tradition, seemingly by players and the game's authors alike[citation needed]. Where once there was a continuous feud between mages and shamans over the nature of magic that often manifested itself in the fiction as much as the mechanics, the two traditions are so largely similar now that there has been little to no mention of this feud in any official SR4 books.

That said it does look good. I was hooked on shadowrun due to the art and the new artwork while different looks nice.

I was looking through my collection and the third edition is my favorite so far link especially the Paul Bonner cover…one of my favorite covers for an RPG.

I didn't get to secure all the supplements…did Shadowrun pursue a post apocalyptic future beyond the "current setting" or the one that the standard Shadowrun game is set in?

A classic ruined Earth setting…civilization is broken, limited supplies/resources, and other elements.

I know the Shadowrun setting is dark and near collapse but it is still functional.

As I type this I think back to anther FASA game, Earthdawn. A fantasy post apocalyptic game…great art in the main book and most of the supplements. A great PA setting because it was so different, as it was all fantasy based.

So does the new edition entice you? And did any of the supplements deal with a post apocalyptic future?

Sorry for the ramble…was flipping through my third edition at the same time :)

pavelft24 Aug 2010 8:21 p.m. PST

SR4 has been out for over a year now…

Battle Works Studios24 Aug 2010 8:22 p.m. PST

Fourth edition came out in 2005.

blackscribe25 Aug 2010 8:30 a.m. PST

It has been out long enough that there is a newer version of the fourth edition rulebook.

Thanks for the mini-review. It sounds like they have messed things up even more than third edition did.

Hexxenhammer25 Aug 2010 8:40 a.m. PST

I thought 3rd edition was pretty good. It was mostly the same as 2nd, but fixed the problem of having heavily cybered characters go six times and kill all the bad guys before my non-cybered orc PI could go once.

richarDISNEY25 Aug 2010 8:54 a.m. PST

Does anybody know if its worth getting the new 20th Anniversary ed vs. the regular 4th ed?
beer

GypsyComet25 Aug 2010 9:18 a.m. PST

The 20th Anniversary edition is much better presented than the original 4th edition book.

Having played 4th, I can say that my biggest problem with it is the positively Gygaxian tendency to have a rule for everything the authors could think of, while still leaving exasperating gaps, filing important related data an entire chapter away, or indeed at the other end of the book, and just generally going out of their way to be opaque. Oh, and their character sheets suck, not that this is unique to Shadowrun.

The base system is fine. I even bought a set of black d6s and converted them to Shadowrun dice by taking a red pen to the one pips and blacking out the 2,3, and 4.

Lion in the Stars25 Aug 2010 9:42 a.m. PST

You can still get the original 4e book? The only one I've seen in the LGS is the 20th anniversary edition.

Shadowrun as a setting is NOT post-apocalyptic (no collapse of civilization). There have been major changes to the world, completely shaking up the old order, but large parts of the world would be recognizable to someone today. For the most part, the 'collapsed' parts of the world are the same holes that exist in the world today, just more decayed. I've lived up around Seattle, and a lot of the area outside there is … interesting, in the Chinese sense of the word.

A lot of the technology pieces make much better sense than Cyberpunk ever did (particularly the CP3 info-collapse BS).

Zardoz25 Aug 2010 9:47 a.m. PST

Not for me, I never liked the background. Fantasy and high SF, I can handle that. Fantasy and Blade Runner – yuck.

28mmMan25 Aug 2010 11:26 a.m. PST

"Does anybody know if its worth getting the new 20th Anniversary ed vs. the regular 4th ed?"

That is generally where I was headed also…what does the new edition, the 20th Anniversary edition, offer to make it a viable purchase over the 4th edition rule book…other than new art of course :)

Joel4725 Aug 2010 11:37 a.m. PST

Besides the new art, there are short stories separating the chapters, similar to the chapter breaks in the new Battletech rulebooks. There are also numerous small-to-middling rules changes, summarized in this document: PDF link

Lion in the Stars25 Aug 2010 2:52 p.m. PST

Like I said, I didn't think you could still get the 4th edition of the basic rulebook. If you're going from 3e to 4e, there's no reason to try to find the 4e book, the 20th anniversary edition (from other's comments) is better laid out, and has a serious index.

I was threatening my gaming group with SR4 as an Infinity RPG. What about that magic stuff, you ask? What magic, answers the storyteller.

28mmMan25 Aug 2010 3:50 p.m. PST

Lion that sounds like fun…and a great use of Infinity miniatures.

I personally do not mind the magic…I was not as happy with the way shadowrun applied said magics. I like the street level approach to all my extra curricular powers (super, magic, cyber, etc.).

Magic as a tool is A-ok in my book.

The lines get a bit muddled when it is all power play…wizard-cyber samurai-hacker-gunslinger troll-dragon…the one in one guy tends to push my panic button (usually reserved for power gamers and hippies).

But I do like magic. With high enough technology the lines could get a bit crossed…your magic is in my cyberware, hey your cyberware is in magic…

Those that focus more one way or the other gain more from the focus.

Sounds like fun.

And as far as the 4th edition or the 20th anniversary edition goes, it sounds like a matter of availability and minor changes…hopefully it keeps the story alive.

CPBelt25 Aug 2010 3:56 p.m. PST

Richard, guys are constantly dumping Shadowrun rulebooks on rpg.net. Just watch there. I get all my bargain there.

IMO price would be my deciding factor. I do like 20th's cumulative index.

I agree with Gypsy above on all his comments.

Thanks for the heads up on 4-20th.5 or whatever it will be called. Glitch sounds like a major improvement.

richarDISNEY26 Aug 2010 7:28 a.m. PST

BTW… There is a new Shadowrun-ish skirmish minis game coming out from New Evolution Games called Cyberslums.

They have a Kickstarter/backer thing going on right now. link

I will say I am kind of a sock here as I am a playtester for this (not author), but I also liked the rough rules so much already, I became a Kickstarter too.

Thanks CPBelt. I will look there for the new rules.
beer

28mmMan26 Aug 2010 8:07 a.m. PST

While I was digging around for references t my favorite Shadow Run supplement, Bug City, I found this youtube for Bug City YouTube link and a good time line for Shadow Run link

I do not know about you but the potential for this game is still quite good…play around with Infinity the game and I think there is a good tie in.

blackscribe26 Aug 2010 10:03 a.m. PST

My major problem with 3rd was "exceeding racial maximums."

GypsyComet26 Aug 2010 6:41 p.m. PST

A problem with all four editions is that a scum of Seattle shadowrunner MUST be at or near peak (meta) Human potential in multiple fields just to be decently good at his vocation. The game just isn't for average shmoes.

28mmMan26 Aug 2010 9:26 p.m. PST

True…it did suffer from power creep…like RIFTs.

Of course the GM can scale the power level as much as they like…easy answer but then the players want all the goodies and power curve.

Makes you wonder, do most people play RPGs to be gods or characters…and the two near shall meet.

Me I like characters and the imagery of the character…developing the nuts and bolts.

The whole biggest guns, most stuff, highest stats, etc. have never been a push for me.

Just tone it down a bit…street level rather than gods.

Willtij21 Dec 2012 10:32 p.m. PST

Well I guess no need to bother with 4th edition since 5th edition is coming out in 2013

link

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.