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"Pic of new Star Trek ships from Wizkids" Topic


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Agent 13 Inactive Member08 Aug 2010 10:42 a.m. PST

twitpic.com/2ctmx1

The D6Gen folks posted this photo from Gencon of the prototypes for the upcoming ST ship game. They also posted some photos of the upcoming ST board games. All their photos are here:
link

The ships look fantastic. Does anyone know if they will be rubbery plastic used in WK games, hard plastic, or metal? I would hate to have it rubber and see most of the ships droop, especially the Klingon.

Battle Works Studios Inactive Member08 Aug 2010 10:46 a.m. PST

There's no way it's going to be metal, that's not Wizkids' thing. I'd expect a vinyl plastic material like the other 'clix products, not styrene, but they might surprise us.

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian08 Aug 2010 11:19 a.m. PST

sigh…. so much for scale.

LeadLair76 Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 12:16 p.m. PST

Look pretty good. Hopefully in scale with the old FASA stuff.

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian08 Aug 2010 12:40 p.m. PST

Look pretty good. Hopefully in scale with the old FASA stuff.

Depends on what you mean by scale. The old Fasa stuff was a constant scale (1/3900), meaning the differences in size of the ships as they (pretend) existed were reflected accurately in the different size of the models.

These Wizkids things do not look to be constant scale. If they were, the NegVar would be much larger than the E-E and the K'tinga would be smaller than it is compared to the E-E.

Good looking minis in any case.

Top Gun Ace Inactive Member08 Aug 2010 12:59 p.m. PST

Hopefully they are made of rigid rubber/plastic, since otherwise, I won't be purchasing any.

Personal logo CmdrKiley Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 1:30 p.m. PST

I heard the guy mention that these prototypes were just produced for the show and they haven't decided on a scale yet. The size of the models may be changed from these digital masters depending on how many models they want to put in the box.

TheBeast Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 2:16 p.m. PST

I've already whined about how my micromachines will be less precious. ;->=

Still, I welcome the set, though it does seem to be handled a bit haphazardly.

A friend saw the cutout ships on the board and asked if there was going to be a demo. 'Uh, no…'

Doesn't sound well thought out at this point, though the board suggest the rules are well along. And, why set them out if you aren't going to give a clue as to the game?

Rubbery would be nasty, indeed, but vinyl does seem to be the norm. Beautiful detail possible; but you gotta hate the droop.

And, what ever happened to the Galoob paint system? Didn't Hasbro buy them out?

Doug

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 2:19 p.m. PST

how many models they want to put in the box.

Meaning you can forget about a consistent scale, if that's their main concern.
:-P
I'm guessing it's also blind collectable, too.

Hey WizKids—

1.) Kids don't watch much Star Trek today. Your market is college age (minimum) and up. We don't do "toys" (even though they are), we do "models."

2.) Kids buy "blind" collectible stuff in hopes of striking it big. Adults who haven't outgrown that kind of thinking head for Vegas. Adults who buy spaceships buy what we want. We don't scramble around hoping we get the ships we want. We choose them. Blind collecting is for the 8-13 age range… who don't watch Star Trek.

3.) Kids don't care about scale. Adults expect a reasonable consistent look. That's why we didn't jump all over the Star Wars starship game— the scales were absurd.

4.) "Bendy" plastic is for kids. Adults expect rigid, sturdy construction with good detail. You have the detail down. Follow up with the construction.

5.) Make the game strategic and space-combat like, or forget it. (Another reason the Star Wars game tanked.)

Think they'll listen? I doubt it.

Ralphio Inactive Member08 Aug 2010 2:52 p.m. PST

I agree with every point parzival has just made.

CPBelt Inactive Member08 Aug 2010 3:51 p.m. PST

Parzival is wrong on most key points.

1) You got the demographic right with 20 and 30 somethings. They also have gobs of disposable income. ST is very popular among the age group, at least from what my college students tell me--witness the new movie and the upcoming ST movie.

2) Magic: The Gathering continues to make a fortune based on the demographic in #1. Ever hang out at a CCG shop? They also have made HeroClix a huge success. WK went wrong in many other places that HC alone could not keep them afloat. If done right with good models, good rare-uncommon-common distribution, and good rules the game will be huge in the collectible game market, which is larger than the miniature community TMP caters to.

3) No, both SW games bombed because they sucked weasel eggs! The WK one was horrid and no one wanted the cards, which had bad distribution of rare-uncommon-common. Plus, Luscas/Hasbro said they would make only one set for the WotC game regardless.

4) Bendy is the clix domain. Everyone is used to it. Though I have hundreds of clix and SW/D&D minis, I still like rigid plastic better. I do not want my Klingon ship drooping.

5) I agree there. So does the market place.

This will be a huge winner if they do it right--or kill the company for good. I will buy the singles on the secondary market. Maybe a booster or two discounted from coolstuffinc. If it is done right.

TheBeast Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 4:53 p.m. PST

*whoops*

Please ignore Hasbro/WotC faux paux.

Doug

Personal logo CmdrKiley Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 6:04 p.m. PST

I was told by the person there this WILL NOT be randomly packed. All the ships will have names, and thus will not have generic "Constitution" class starships but will be individual named ships.

The game has some sort of exploratory element to it, hence the hex tiles. The tiles are uncovered to reveal space, strange new worlds, etc.

The representative also stated that this game is really in the development stages and a lot of details are not complete yet about the game play, so he wasn't going to coment on too many of the specific questions on game play. He did state that the pieces, including the stereolith models were whipped up and delivered just before they left for the show.

The G Dog Fezian08 Aug 2010 7:08 p.m. PST

Needs more energy beings!

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 7:58 p.m. PST

Parzival is wrong on most key points.

Pardon me if I politely differ with your assessment of my opinion. wink

1) You got the demographic right with 20 and 30 somethings. They also have gobs of disposable income. ST is very popular among the age group, at least from what my college students tell me--witness the new movie and the upcoming ST movie.

1.) I didn't say 20-30, I said 20 and up. Most Star Trek fans who followed the various series are at least 35, probably closer to 45 and up. And many of us are not fans of the most recent movie. We also have more income to spend than 20-30, but we're more discerning in our hobby choices. And if the game follows only the movie setting, it lacks the backstory and imagery necessary to make it viable. Which means they have to reach back to the TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY eras for background and imagery— which aren't what the 20-30s are as interested in. So if they're shooting for the 20-30 market, they risk missing the target.

2) Magic: The Gathering continues to make a fortune based on the demographic in #1. Ever hang out at a CCG shop? They also have made HeroClix a huge success. WK went wrong in many other places that HC alone could not keep them afloat. If done right with good models, good rare-uncommon-common distribution, and good rules the game will be huge in the collectible game market, which is larger than the miniature community TMP caters to.

2.) Big difference between a CCG and a minis game, even a collectable one. Big difference, in both cost, portability, storage and interest. Magic is broad-themed, generic fantasy. Star Trek is specific. Magic decks can fit in a pocket or a binder, and can be played on a bus seat in a pinch. Starships, even small ones, are bulky and require much more room for storage and play. And I daresay boosters of cards are a heck of a lot cheaper than boosters of starship models. There may be overlap, but it isn't the same market, and assuming that it is is risky and foolish.

3) No, both SW games bombed because they sucked weasel eggs! The WK one was horrid and no one wanted the cards, which had bad distribution of rare-uncommon-common. Plus, Luscas/Hasbro said they would make only one set for the WotC game regardless.

As a gamer highly interested in spaceship gaming, I (like many others) was excited when Star Wars Starship Battles was announced. I didn't really care about the rules— I figured I could use the minis for whatever. But as it became evident what we were getting, and that the boosters were blind, my interest (and the interest of others) plummeted. Inconsistent scale, poor quality materials, inability to choose our own forces, that CCG "rare-uncommon" garbage, and more all caused us to pass on the game in large numbers. And I note that the 20-30 somethings, who love Star Wars far more than Star Trek, passed on the game as well. And not just because the rules sucked (they did), but because of other factors, quite possibly based on my comments regarding point #2. (Space, portability and cost). That Hasbro/Lucas sad "only one run" didn't have anything much to do with it, except that maybe they realized form the start they had agreed to a turkey.

4) Bendy is the clix domain. Everyone is used to it. Though I have hundreds of clix and SW/D&D minis, I still like rigid plastic better. I do not want my Klingon ship drooping.

Oh, agreed that bendy is sadly the clix domain. But the clix domain and the starship battles domain diverge on this point in major ways. And if droopy wins, then once again, the clix domain will lose a potential market. And given that it's one thing to put up with a bent sword, it's another thing to put up with an Enterprise that appears to be trying to become a taco.

Cards have consistent quality. You buy a pack, it looks as good as the next pack, and it has the look you expect. So you buy more.

You buy a model and it looks like somebody left it in car in Arizona for twelve hours, you are not happy— and you don't buy more. Nor are your friends impressed when they look at it, so they don't buy either.

5) I agree there. So does the market place.

No argument, of course.

I will buy the singles on the secondary market. Maybe a booster or two discounted from coolstuffinc. If it is done right.

Well, that will kill it right there. Unless they can generate the interest to have people buy it up front, secondary and discounted does them no good.

And frankly the "exploratory" element from CmdrKiley's post sounds like an absolute dud to me. But then, I'm a wargamer, not an exploragamer. wink

Bunkermeister08 Aug 2010 8:36 p.m. PST

While it is unlikely that I will buy these, I can certainly say that the whole random unknown packaging thingy is a total turn off for me for any product. I want what I want. But then at 54 I know enough not to buy a pig in a poke.

For you kids, a poke is slang for a bag.

An old con is to sell someone a pig in a poke, but don't show them the pig, it might escape. Once the seller gets home and opens the bag he usually found a cat. Not a bargin pig.

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 9:09 p.m. PST

a pig in a poke.

Where I come from, it's "buy peanuts after dark."

In fact, it's against the law in my old home town to sell peanuts after dark, because a judge did that very thing, and got home to discover the peanuts he bought were all rotten in their shells.

Personal logo CmdrKiley Supporting Member of TMP08 Aug 2010 11:48 p.m. PST

I got the feeling from the description that this will be more of a boardgame with a set amount of pre-painted miniatures. More than likely there will be expansions to it with other factions but I'm sure the ships will be sold in sets.

Dr Mathias Fezian09 Aug 2010 5:46 a.m. PST

Those who are really interested in accurate scale should try to contact the designers and pressure them into doing it right. I'm a believer in the saying "Squeaky wheel gets the grease", and if they don't get the scale right at least you can say you tried.

TheBeast Supporting Member of TMP09 Aug 2010 7:01 a.m. PST

I've just seen an image a friend brought back of the figs, and noticed three different sized Negh'Var(?).

I was about to run rampant on speculation of what this does or does not mean, but others do that so much better than I.

Doug

Personal logo CmdrKiley Supporting Member of TMP09 Aug 2010 7:15 a.m. PST

Here's some pics of what I saw.

picture

picture

Personal logo Virtualscratchbuilder Supporting Member of TMP Fezian09 Aug 2010 2:26 p.m. PST

They are certainly all over the place, scale-wise.

Captain Gideon Supporting Member of TMP09 Aug 2010 4:25 p.m. PST

I told a friend about the 3 different sized Negh'Var's and he told me that it might be 3 different Negh'Var's since there were 3 different sized Negh'Var's in Next Generation so if that's the case then that's okay with me.

Captain Gideon

Personal logo CmdrKiley Supporting Member of TMP09 Aug 2010 7:55 p.m. PST

Like I said above, they haven't decided on a 'scale' or actual size for the ship models. The various sizes were more than likely run off the same digital model to see what size works best with the game. The man there stated that they are working on what size works best to fit the number of models they want in the box.

Besides, who'd really want a models of Constituion and Intrepid class ships in scale with Galaxy and Sovereign class ships? One's either going to be too big to play with or the other is going to be too damn small to know what they have.

Jeff Cope Inactive Member10 Aug 2010 5:22 a.m. PST

There were 3 different sized Negh'Var's because they were testing how the detail was coming out. The small blue and the large blue were detail tests and they are leaning towards the middle sized one for the game.

All these tests are test 'prints' and early prototypes so don't go making too many assumptions based on Gen Con pics.

Size and scale issues aside, these models looked GREAT in person.

And, yes, this game is NOT collectible. No blind purchasing. There'll be a base set and fleet box expansions.

TheBeast Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2010 6:33 a.m. PST

Oh, come on, assumptions and guessing are all we have.

I have to admit, the piccies make them look darn good; still wondering if the final examples will have vinyl droop, though.

And there's always speculation about painting…

We'll be at this all fall and the start of winter!

Doug

soulman Inactive Member11 Aug 2010 7:12 a.m. PST

Well i`m pleased with what i saw of the models, i do read some time ago, you get 20 ships in a box, and they was top of the range style models at $100 USD for the box..?

Also being wizkids, i thought they be cliz..?

But it was a mock up, i was thinking it be a mass battle game, but looking at the location cards, it seems from the pics that you have a fleet of up to 3 ships and move around from planet to planet etc…?

But we cannot say at the moment, but if thy fail to bring us a good startrek space battle game, then thats that another loss for wizkids…
Fingers crossed

trynda170117 Aug 2010 8:53 a.m. PST

A bit more info about the two games actual mechanics, and more pictures, can be found here…

link

trynda170103 Sep 2010 6:07 p.m. PST

A bit more info in the form of a short interview with the Product Development Manager at Wizkids…

link

Interesting points are that the prototype minis were exactly that, fragile and just to test the digital sculpts. Plus a point made at the start off the blog mentioning that only the two previously mentioned games are planned, so NO character based combat game with figures! :(

soulman Inactive Member04 Sep 2010 2:33 a.m. PST

Cannot but the ships singly..!!!

One hand wiskids gives uu something we been waiting forever for and on the other hand they take it away..!!!

Sir Samuel Vimes18 Sep 2010 2:00 a.m. PST

Does anyone else recall seeing a fan made Version of the Rocketmen CSG re-tooled for Star Trek? I saw the site years ago and it was full of printable models in the same general style as Rocketmen and The Pirates of… models from Wizkids.

Some legal department or other may have killed the project, or perhaps it is just lost to the web. This was not a WizKids project, nor is it linked to the new game they are producing. The fan made stuff I saw was both well done and free. Anyway, I'd love to find the ship files again for use in RPG ship actions.

Can anyone help me out with finding these.

soulman Inactive Member18 Sep 2010 5:23 a.m. PST

Hever came across them, but i love to know more as well…

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