descartes | 31 Jul 2010 10:17 a.m. PST |
Any one ever read anything about visitations of Japanese sailors to the Alaskan or Western coast of of what is now Canada?And of course returning,in the early Medieval era,Say before 1000 A.D..Always thought this would make a great adventure story.As I remember this would be before the Japanese began to close off,and stop trade efforts. |
Sundance | 31 Jul 2010 10:29 a.m. PST |
It's known that there were at least Chinese shipwrecks on the west coast IIRC 15th century and maybe earlier, I believe, based on coins being found in various western spots. And via trade some of the coins made their way inland. Don't know the details, but it's unusual enough you should be able to find bits and pieces without too much trouble. |
Coelacanth1938 | 31 Jul 2010 11:25 a.m. PST |
I think the Wild Wild West would've been much more interesting if Native Americans had learned to forge katanas and practiced Bushido ;) |
Cpt Arexu | 31 Jul 2010 11:40 a.m. PST |
The Kuro Shio current is a loop current that runs around the north pacific in a clockwise direction – in the 18th-19th century Japanese fishermen did get swept off by it* and was up on the west coast of Canada and the US (some are buried in Santa Barbara and other places). some even made the whole circuit and were rescued by whalers back off of Japan. ----------------------------------------------------------- The Tokugawa Shogunate specified ship construction practices that made Japanese vessels unsafe at the time – big, loosely attached rudders and unstayed tall mast/sail rigs that could be lost in storms, leaving unlucky fishermen stuck on an unsteerable raft
This was part of their Sakoku Policy of limiting Japanese overseas travel – the Tokugawa allowed Dutch, Chinese, and Ryukyuan ships to sail to and from Japan but discouraged Japanese voyaging. |
Parzival | 31 Jul 2010 12:06 p.m. PST |
Yeah, but they were just tourists. (Ducks and runs
) |
RockyRusso | 01 Aug 2010 12:07 p.m. PST |
Hi Periodically, someone "proves" this stuff for both the Chinese and the Japanese. So far nothing has stood up. The coins that did show are more easily explained as normal inuit trade. Rocky |
Ban Chao | 03 Sep 2011 2:16 p.m. PST |
agree with RR here, there has been no real hard evidence, yet, but it would make a belting scenario! |
oldbob | 04 Sep 2011 8:29 a.m. PST |
Their was a book called "They All Discovered America" The Chinese are in it, but most of the stuff is unprovened. Suppose idly the maps the Chinese Government have, do look a lot like the west coast of North America. The Japaneses got to the Philippines Islands and used them for banishment for some of their troublesome Lords. I've not read anything that said they traveled far in those ships they used. |
Ban Chao | 05 Sep 2011 12:07 p.m. PST |
well the Chinese could certainly have travelled to the Americas with the tech they had no problem but that does not mean they did it but also does not mean they did not either, after all only a fraction of ancient sites have been found or excavated^^ |
Bowman | 05 Sep 2011 3:11 p.m. PST |
well the Chinese could certainly have travelled to the Americas with the tech they had no problem but that does not mean they did it but also does not mean they did not either, after all only a fraction of ancient sites have been found or excavated^^ Except that the Chinese Treasure fleets kept good records and kept good maps of where they had been. They went as far as the east coast of Africa, a pretty impressive feat in itself. |
Ban Chao | 06 Sep 2011 7:10 a.m. PST |
'Except that the Chinese Treasure fleets kept good records and kept good maps of where they had been' yeah they did but we also know a huge amount of records were destroyed as well so it is always a possibility no matter how REMOTE and the treasure ships of Zhèng Hé went to Africa (reading the original Stele of his voyages are a great read) in the 15thC they had been sailing for thousands of years before that, but as it stands with current knowledge they did NOT go to the Americas ^^, after all we have found entire civilizations but no record of them found anywhere else, as you know you never say never in Archeaology/History but that also means not let whats possible become what is. |
Bowman | 06 Sep 2011 10:34 a.m. PST |
Sorry Wodensraven, I can't make out what you are saying.
.the treasure ships of Zhèng Hé went to Africa (reading the original Stele of his voyages are a great read) in the 15thC they had been sailing for thousands of years before that,
. How many thousands of years?
.after all we have found entire civilizations but no record of them found anywhere else
. Any outside of pre-literate, prehistoric times that you can mention? Look, despite the loss of much of the recorded material, it is known that the Treasure fleets made it to southern Africa and the maps and logs still exist. Professors from Beijing, who were excoriating Menzies ideas, state emphatically that the records show that the ships never crossed into the Atlantic. I'm not familiar with other fleets that sailed "thousands of years" earlier. I think we are only dealing with the Ming Dynasty. |
Ban Chao | 08 Sep 2011 9:28 a.m. PST |
hmm you misunderstand me, Menzies is a great FANTASY author the only people who take him seriously are those who do not know a lot about China history, in other words just because something is possible to do it does not mean it happened, we now have the tech to take man to Mars but that does not mean we have. I mentioned the Stele as i have seen a few of them in real life and Zhèng Hé was one of the worlds great explorers, i mentioned this as you mentioned China going to East Africa. These proffesors of Beijing you mention, well my Uncle is one of them & have more family working at Liangzhu site as well as other places so i am very up to date with modern finds and as i stated i DO NOT believe they went to America based on current knowledge. I apologize, wrong wording from me i did not mean Treasure fleets had been sailing for thousands of years but of Chinas very long Sea going History and capability which does stretch back a long time. I do hope that is more clear altough a bit off as the topic was for Japanese visitations!!!! ^^. |