SJDonovan | 13 Jul 2010 5:39 a.m. PST |
Can anyone point me to a source of information on how French foot dragoons were organised and operated? Specifically, I am interested in whether all French dragoon regiments had the capacity to operate on foot or whether certain regiments were designated as 'foot dragoons' and always operated dismounted. Also were they used as regular line infantry or were they generally deployed as skirmishers? Thanks for any information you can give. Stephen |
von Winterfeldt | 13 Jul 2010 5:50 a.m. PST |
They were ad hoc regiments made up from all Dragoon regiments – there is a good discussion in volume I of Almbert and Colin about the Foot Dragoons and their related problems, due to unprofessional orders of napoleon – then Murat had to interfere on the behalf of the cavalry. They were used as regular infantry and did wear gaiters instead of cavalry boots, as well as back packs. |
SJDonovan | 13 Jul 2010 7:25 a.m. PST |
Thanks von Winterfeldt. I'm not familiar with Almbert and Colin (and haven't been able to turn up anything via Google). Can you let me know the title of the work? |
Schogun | 13 Jul 2010 7:50 a.m. PST |
From my limited knowledge
and perhaps far too simplistic an answer (others will confirm or flame): Most mounted dragoons carried carbines and were trained and armed to also fight on foot. (That was one of the differentiations that made them Dragoons.) When/where there was a shortage of horses, some dragoons were formed into Foot Dragoon companies and fought like infantry with muskets. |
von Winterfeldt | 13 Jul 2010 9:14 a.m. PST |
Alombert & Colin La Campagne de 1805 en Allemagne, Paris 1902 Tome I |
SJDonovan | 13 Jul 2010 9:28 a.m. PST |
Thanks von Winterfeldt I have found it on Google books. However, my French isn't up to reading a work like this. Can anyone point me to something in English (and preferably in print)? |
Schogun | 13 Jul 2010 9:53 a.m. PST |
This might get you started: link |
Billy Bones | 13 Jul 2010 10:56 a.m. PST |
Always found it amazing how unprofessional Napoleon was with his orders. Wags |
SJDonovan | 13 Jul 2010 5:25 p.m. PST |
Thanks Schogun. Useful information there. I've had that site bookmarked for a while but for some reason always forget to look at it. |
10th Marines | 13 Jul 2010 5:49 p.m. PST |
For the period 1800-1806 a shortage of horses enabled Napoleon to mount only some of his dragoon regiments. Two divisions of dismounted dragoons were organized for the planned invasion of England. They wore their regular green uniforms and helmets but were issued infantry shoes and gaiters along with packs and overcoats and they were also issued drums in addition to their usual trumpets. They had to carry boots, horse furniture (saddles and bridles) and it was intended that when they landed in England they were to use captured English horses as remounts. In 1805 when Austria and Russia moved against France from the east, these two divisions were abolished. By this time Napoleon could mount three out of four squadrons of the dragoon regiments so the regiments were brigaded together and organized into mounted divisions and went east. The remaining dismounted squadrons were organized into provisional regiments and formed a division of 6,000 men. The division was assigned the mission of escorting and guarding the army artillery park and trains. Horse furniture, swords, etc. were ordered left behind. This was a sensible solution to the problem but in the midst of the organization of the dismounted division (nicknamed, among other things, 'wooden swords' by the rest of the army), veteran cavalrymen were assigned to the dismounted division while new recruits got the horses in the mounted squadrons. Naturally there were bad feelings on the part of the veterans which were taken out on the recruits when the two 'types' of dragoons met in bivouac and the veterans found their mounts neglected by ignorance or laziness. For 1806 there were still enough dismounted dragoons to constitute two provisional regiments. As more horses were acquired through large captures, a depot was established at Wittenberg and the personnel of the two regiments were sent there to reorganize and reequip with the necessary equipment taken from depots and prisoners. Sincerely, K |
10th Marines | 13 Jul 2010 5:51 p.m. PST |
Wags, I am shocked also at Napoleon's unprofessional behavior here. Do we have a reference or merely another snide comment without anything to back it up except bias? Sincerely, K |
von Winterfeldt | 13 Jul 2010 10:55 p.m. PST |
@Wagram Just read the book and form your own opinion. |
SJDonovan | 14 Jul 2010 2:03 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the information everyone. I've just bought some foot dragoons and I was wondering how to paint and organise them. I've found a reference in Hourtoulle's book on Jena-Auerstaedt that shows them formed in two regiments each of which is made up of men from eight different dragoon regiments. So it sounds like I will be able to have a different facing colour for each company, which is going to make for a colourful unit. |
Billy Bones | 14 Jul 2010 2:59 a.m. PST |
Von, I somehow think our opinions would differ and I have read Vol 1 Wags |
von Winterfeldt | 14 Jul 2010 3:24 a.m. PST |
@SJDonovan Go to pages 292 to 294 of volume one, you don't have to be that good in French to read the unit names which made up the 4 regiments – you will also find the name of the regiments and what guidons were carried. Now the strange thing is that the guidons are named for example Guidon du 1er régiments à cheval – which is a bit odd. Or do they mean the guidons of dragoons? Most likley Wagram will know an answer to that. |
SJDonovan | 14 Jul 2010 3:54 a.m. PST |
Thanks von Winterfeldt. I'll get my Hachette pocket dictionary out and give it a go. |
Billy Bones | 14 Jul 2010 3:55 a.m. PST |
Von, At present I have no explanation I notice that the 4e Regiment as the 1er Bataillon s being the 15e Regt a Cheval and the 2e Bataillon being the 17e Regt a Cheval. I have a friend who will check into the regimental histories for me,still difer on Napoleon being unproffesional understandable with you as you dislike him. Wags |
von Winterfeldt | 14 Jul 2010 4:03 a.m. PST |
@Wagram Great, looking forward to see what your friend will find out. I believe that dragoon guidons are ment – and not cavalry, there in theory the cavalry regiments then were defunct and converted into curiassiers and they would then speak about etandards. SJDonovan No need for a dicitionary for example 1er Régiment 1er bataillon 2 comp. du 1er rég. 2 – 2e rég. 2 – 20 rég. That means two companies of the 1st regiments ( or one squadron) and so on In case I make a correct assumption – that a battlion consisted of 6 companies. |
Billy Bones | 14 Jul 2010 4:58 a.m. PST |
Von, Each company consisting the following 1 Capitaine 1 Lieutenant 1 Sous Lieutenant 1 Marechal des Logis 4 Marechaux des Logis 8 Brigadiers 2 Tambours or Trompettes 130 Dragons Total 148 men Wags |
SJDonovan | 14 Jul 2010 5:12 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the additional input guys. What I love about Napoleonics is that as soon as you scratch the surface things get more interesting
and more complicated. |
von Winterfeldt | 14 Jul 2010 7:12 a.m. PST |
@Wagram You show the theoretical strenght for the company 1 Maréchal des Logis – it should be 1 Maréchal des logis chef Napoléon did want to have 4 regiments, of 2 battalions each, the battalion of 900 men. At crossing the Rhin the Division de dragons à pied had 1. reg. – 1,170 men 2. reg. – 1,468 men 3. reg. – 1,770 men 4. reg. – 1,097 men Total 4 regiments of 2 Battalions each – 5,505 men Interestingly they had 6 companies per battalion in contrast to 9 od the infantry. |
Billy Bones | 14 Jul 2010 10:41 a.m. PST |
Von, I believe the history of the 10e Dragons gives the composition of the 2e Regt as being 4 Companies to each bataillon have not fully checked it yet it also I believe mentions a ninth company which in theory would give you approx 1400 men in the regiment. Wags |