"Lasalle wins best Historical Miniatures Game Rules of 2010" Topic

Congratulations to Sam Mustafa for winning Historical Miniatures Game Rules of the Year for Lasalle at Historicon.

Bravo!

And well deserved. Congratulations.

Congratulations!

Sam's rules are indeed excellent. Checking my calendar seems to indicate that the year 2010 is only half over, is there now a Gregorian, Julian, and a HMGS Calendar? If so, does it begin with Wally's birthday?

HMGS is real good at math. Haven't you noticed?

Well done Sam.

Alas, one week too late to fall on the anniversary of the namesake's death.

My thanks to all.

Bravo!

Congratulations Sam.

Meh. I thought BP deserved it. LaSalle isn't a terribly fun system…

Ah, the famous TMP mean-spiritedness that I was warned about.

Sad

Not mean-spirited. I just think there was a bias by the 'hardcore no fun allowed' group in the judging.

BP is the better game overall, and should've won, IMHO…

If you think that's mean-spiritedness you must be new to the internet, let alone the site.

-----
Warren B.
minisculpture.co.uk

Well, it didn't take long for someone to rain all over Lasalle's parade by bringing up some other game. At least no one can claim inconsistency at TMP in that department!

Normally my games are criticized with something along these lines: "XYZ is just a silly, fun game with no attempt at serious simulation or historical accuracy!"

I'm always surprised to get the opposite criticism that I belong to the "serious hardcore no fun allowed" crowd.

It reminds me of Stephen Wright's old joke about buying a humidifier and a dehumidifier and putting them in the same room to let them fight it out.

You must have fallen between BP and Empire in the voting Sam :)

Votre ami, putain romarin

"I just think there was a bias by the 'hardcore no fun allowed' group in the judging"

If that was true, Republic to empire would have won, Lasalle is in no way a hardcore ruleset, it's simple yet has the feel of napoleonics

Jeez, I was just stating my opinion about the game in what I consider a respectful fashion.

No one can take a lick of criticism, eh?

If you want yesmanship, don't go on a discussion board.

The game is comparable to GW stuff and Foundry's "Napoleon"…

I don't intend to further a flame war, but I will make this observation.

There are times – weddings, funerals, even inconsequential, in the greater scheme of things, threads offering congratulations – where if you can't say anything good then it may be better to say nothing at all. Most folks acquire the requisite self-awareness upon reaching maturity. The ones who don't shouldn't be surprised if other people call them on their behavior.

So, silence the dissenters, eh?

I can name like twenty systems that deserved the award more than LaSalle. It's really quite sad that corruption prevailed in the end. I'd heard HMGS-E had some questionable dealings going on…

Hopefully this doesn't sucker too many folks into buying it.

To all Nappy hopefuls, I'd reccomend Black Powder, Sharp Practice, Shako II, and Trafalgar for naval.

Stay away from this and Foundry's 'Napoleon'…

You'd recommend Shako II, but… is it a divisional or corps level game? Will I be able to play with my meagre collection?

;-)

It's really quite sad that corruption prevailed in the end. I'd heard HMGS-E had some questionable dealings going on…

All right. Quit ing around and being coy. Spit it out, Man. What EXACTLY are you talking about?
Can I say "Put up or shut up!" without falling astray of the TMP "Shut up!" rule? No? Well, OK. I didn't say it.

You'd recommend Shako II, but… is it a divisional or corps level game? Will I be able to play with my meagre collection?

I did just buy it, so it darned well better be good!

All right. Quit ing around and being coy. Spit it out, Man. What EXACTLY are you talking about?
Can I say "Put up or shut up!" without falling astray of the TMP "Shut up!" rule? No? Well, OK. I didn't say it.

I'd heard all of the some 80 grand in funding it had somehow disappeared, and the executive board is, shall we say, not exactly egalitarian…

"Corruption" !!! Eh, false, baseless accusations prevail once again on TMP! Strange how false allegations are sometimes thrown around when one's "pet" rules/game/miniature doesn't get the "recognition" it "deserved."

I'd heard all of the some 80 grand in funding it had somehow disappeared, and the executive board is, shall we say, not exactly egalitarian…

So, ummm, exactly how does the alleged disappearance of "80 grand" have anything to do with Lasalle being recognized by the voting HMGS-East members via ballot as the Historial Rules of the Year?

(I really shoudln't ask, but judging by your posts so far, the answer has to be entertaining ).

Hey man, i'm just repeating what I've heard. I've got no stake in it…

Though you were awful quick to denounce the allegations…

So, you're repeating hearsay. No first hand knowledge. OK, usual level of proof. So, in other words, basically baseless.

Scuttlebut is quite often correct, amigo. The people I was playing with at the con seemed to think the new board members would 'clean up' the HMGS-E…

None of this really ever trickles down to affect us plebs, but perhaps some oversight would do some good…

As for its relation to LaSalle, I think that the award may have been arbitrarily decided by the upper echelon of the leadership, possibly with some monetary incentives…

"I just think there was a bias… in the judging"

"I think that the award may have been arbitrarily decided by the upper echelon of the leadership, possibly with some monetary incentives…"

The voting was done by secret ballot, by HMGS members as they registered for the Con. It would be hard to imagine how that could be "corrupted," unless you're accusing the HMGS people of destroying or altering ballots. Why anybody would bother to do that, is beyond my comprehension.

Let's take a deep breath and get some perspective here: We're talking about a little ten-inch trophy and an "Attaboy" from the gamers at an annual convention. One would think that that would be inoffensive enough not to cause a fuss.

As for taking criticism, anybody who publishes a set of game rules needs to have a very thick skin and a good sense of humor, because people will take shots for no reason and with little logic, simultaneously arguing that your work is "hardcore no fun allowed," as well as, "GW / Foundry," etc… without noticing any contradiction. (Or a guy who posts on one thread asking what Game X is like, will then "recommend" Game X on the same day, as superior to Game Y, on a different thread. Or a guy who says he was at the Con didn't notice that the awards were done by ballots of all the attendees, not by "judges" who got bribed.)

Anyway: my thanks again to everybody who voted, and for all the best wishes subsequently expressed.

Sam

I'll never understand it; it's not because YOU don't like a game that it means it's a bad game.

I'm not the biggest fan of Black Powder; I tried them and they are not what I'm looking for.

But I still think it's a good ruleset, it just doesn't do it for me. I don't go around telling people it's an awful game. To each their own. Is that so difficult to understand?

Well done Sam; no matter if one likes playing your games or not (I do), your rulesets are always quality work and well written.

Well done Sam

Looking forward to playing lasalle. Its been a better read than that 'victorian dad' from Viz rubbish in some other recent unnamed rulesets

"Or a guy who says he was at the Con didn't notice that the awards were done by ballots of all the attendees, not by "judges" who got bribed."

I'd like to respond to this. I was there and saw the posters advertising the nominations at the reg line. I'm awre there was a ballot. Who do you think counted the ballot?

OK, I understand now. He's getting attention.

Heckler.

Erik

Yes, congratulations Sam!

Well done Sam!

Eric

There is a simple rule that is worth carrying through life. Say this to yourself before speaking or writing:

"If I say this, will I look like a complete jerk?"

I feel that our self-proclaimed Imperial Personage is unaware of this self-editing function, and is now diving into serious "Who is this flaming rectal cavity?" territory.

Emperador Carlos, your mother ought to have told you this as a child. And smacked you hard around the ear so you'd remember the lesson.

Also, don't fart in church, don't spit at funerals, and don't pick your nose in wedding photos. You may not be aware of those rules, either.

Congratulations Sam.

So Emperador Carlos, not only feel the rules won when they shouldn't have, but infact call it "historicongate"

Aperantly the same guys that counted the ballots in Florida counted the ballots at Historicon

Good grief, let the guy have five minutes basking in the glow of success!

Congrats. I'm inching towards actually buying a set.

And Sam, aren't you overdue for a name-change?

Well done, again, Sam. I really enjoy the rules and the level at which they play.

Oggie

I think Sam keeps changing his name to give himself multiple votes… THAT is the scandal of Historicongate!

What did the BOD know, and when did they know it…

I thought BP deserved it. LaSalle isn't a terribly fun system

Having played both, I would day both are equally fun.

That being the case, Black Powder should have won because it had superior production value.

Well done Sam for winning, but the notion suggested by some that this thread is comparable to a "Joe Bloggs is Dead" style thread and as such should be without dissenting opinion is frankly laughable. So somebody thinks Black Powder should have won… big deal. Is such a thought going to cause Sam loss of sleep? I'd suggest only if he is phenominally sensitive.

I guess this just proves we can't have a thread with a simple thank you from well wishers. I echo Markup's comments of knowing when being civilized and respectful seems to be lacking in several commentors responses.
I do not play Naps, I have never read Lasalle, but I can still appreciate and congratulate a winner for there efforts towards bettering our little hobby.

Congratulations, please keep up the hard work.

Doc

With all due respect but can't a person disagree with something/someone and not get a ton of bricks dropped on him?

Emperador Carlos is just speaking his mind and i thought in the U.S. you have that right to disagree with something/someone.

I can't say anything good or bad about Lasalle since i don't own it or have played it,i've played other rules over the years like Empire,Battles for Empire to name a couple.

But i will say that if i don't like something i'll express my feelings,and for me i do have that right to say my views.

I've been on other boards where sometimes i said something that ed off many people there,and in most cases i either left of my own accord or was forced to leave.

I wear my feelings on my sleaves and as i said that gets me into trouble sometimes,but i'll continue to do so.

Just my two cents.

Captain Gideon

Congrats Sam.

By coincidence the game scheduled last week for tomorrow's game night is Lasalle (Empire, France vs Austrian core +1).

Look forward to playing Blucher when it comes out (this year or next?).

Yes, it is funny how "no good" and "do not like" get confused. Having bought all 4 books (RtE,Lasalle, Napoleon,BP) and having play tested 3 of them (working on BP now), I can say that Lasalle is an extremely well written, concise, superbly organised and well diagrammed rulebook. It does stand above the others in respect to these criteria. The forum support also clearly outclasses the other rulesets. All have quite good production value.

There are some very minor things I do not like about the Lasalle rules themselves, but of course likes and dislikes are a personal opinion.

So congratulations Sam on winning the award, which your ruleset so clearly deserved.

John

"Emperador Carlos is just speaking his mind and i thought in the U.S. you have that right to disagree with something/someone"

You can disagree, but when you start to slander people and calling elections riged or that people have bribed their way to victory you are going to far

Who've I slandered?

And it's not a leap to say that the voting was just for show. I've been a part of several votes that were simply decided by higher up administrators beforehand. It's quite common.

I'm not outright accusing them of rigging it, no…

Sam,

Does this mean that I don't have to send in all these photocopied ballots for Lasalle that the HMGS Board faxed me? I was in for the whole con(vention), honest – it was just the time difference between Valley Forge and Helsinki that screwed up the schedule. Oh, and will I still receive my share of the $80k "voting incentive" fund?

Cheers,

Emperor Christopher, the Unbanned

I'd just like to state categorically, I'm not accusing anyone of corruption, just relaying what I've seen/heard.

My opinion of LaSalle remains unchanged, regardless of its accolades… (Lipstick on a…well, you know…)