"Kriegspiel - combat results written on the dice?" Topic

Greetings all: I've just read on another thread a comment about Kriegspiel using dice that have the combat results written directly on the dice.
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Can anyone tell me more about what results might be on the die faces? I checked kriegsspiel.org.uk but could not find any reference to these dice.
Thanks!

I have seen a picture of the dice in question, Maybe board game geek or the Two fart lardies website, but I am not sure.

I know you can have custom dice make throught chessex. Or you can find a set of blank dice and use printed stickers.

The results, can be found in the Kriegspiel rules from Two Fat Lardies.

The dice originally used in the 1824 kriegsspiel had lots of information on them, so much so in fact that it could become quite confusing. The 1824 rules that we publish have the original die illustrated, but for ease of use we have converted all of the data into table format which is MUCH easier to use.

There were five dice in the original 1824 kriegsspiel set, each one having a specific function. Most simple was the fact that each one represented specific odds of certain results, but also certain specific situations. So, for example, Die 1 covered the firing by close order infantry and skirmishers firing without the benefit of cover. It also was used to decide the outcome of close combat where the odds of success were considered equal for both sides. It also dealt with howitzers bombarding a village to see if fire broke out.

On the left had side of the dice was the result of half a battalion firing at up to 100 paces range; fire between 100 and 200 paces, fire between 200 and 300 paces and the same between 300 and 400 paces.

The right hand column was used for skirmishers firing at the same ranges.

In the centre of the die was a circle the colour of which dictated the result of close combat (with even odds for both sides, as mentioned) and a letter in this circle told you what degree of victory or defeat had been suffered. Figures below that circle also show casualties lost be a defeated half battalion and for a defeated cavalry squadron. Sometimes the circle would have flames around it, which showed the effect of a howitzer bombardment of a village or town.

So, on that one dice face was ten sets of numbers, one coloured circle with a letter in it and possible some flames. All a bit chaotic.

To replicate the effect of the dice we have simply created some very basic tables so that all you do now is cross reference the unit firing and its range with a rool of 1D6 and that gives you the relevant results. Nice and simple.

I hope that helps. Kriegsspiel is an absolute mine of information and should really be the Bible of any Napoleonic or 19th C wargamer.

toofatlardies.co.uk

Check out the drop-down menu for kriegsspiel products.

In fact here's a direct link:

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In order to use the original kriegsspiel dice, one would have to use cubes the size of children's wooden building blocks – or have eyes like a hawk. I once drew a net of the 1827 [IIRC] dice and Xeroxed onto card to make some probably unfair dice as an experiment. With so much information on each face, one still needed a ket to remember what the various numbers/symbols meant!
But the idea of having results on the faces of dice in a simpler game still has appeal…

Could you use these as a simpler substitute?
picture

Thanks very much for the information. Kriegspiel has the mystique and depth that really makes it appealing.
I don't think the candy hearts would make it from my hand to the table but there is the nugget of an idea there. Throwing a handful to see results.

The tables are easier to use, but just the same one of these days I'm going to make up a set of those dice, possibly on one inch wood cubes. I'm fascinated by the thinking they represent, not to mention the innovation. Nothing like those dice, or the table implementation of same, had ever been done before.

There is a certain economy for using the same five dice for up to six purposes. Iirc, only the first couple dice do all six jobs, the last one only does two or three. If you separated the functions, so you had several dice for close combat, a few more for fire-starting, several for ranked fire, etc, you could have easier to read dice, but about twenty of them!

If you're a dice fan, these dice are where it all started. This is where gambling knucklebones met simulation/adventure gaming. Right there. History.

Andrew

I seems to me that the system is not particularly suited to table use. The idea of the KS is to train command, not to simulate of unit on unit.

In KS the umpire needs to get a move on or the game slows to a crawl. So a simple system of combat results is appropriate because it is not binding, but a guide.

The commanders of the armies never see the dice in KS.

If you try to port that system over to a tabletop you have two choices: either add in all the subtlety that the umpire brings by adding factors and qualifiers, or have an incredibly simplistic battle system. Neither would seem to have much appeal.

I beg to disagree. What tends to slow a kriegsspiel down is the need to refer back to players from the umpire map, and to bring players to the latter to show them what they should be able to see &c.
If you have a conventional tabletop display and use the kriegsspiel rules to resolve movement and combat, you will sacrifice the realism of the closed intelligence system, but the tactical outcomes, calculation of casualties &c. will be as realistic, and no slower – once you are familiar with the system – than many other rules.
And there are certainly no other Napoleonic wargames rules written by an officer who actually served in the wars!

Parallel thread
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You can get these now at:

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I am shocked at how much easier they are to use than looking up results on tables.