"SYW query - battlefield use of howitzers" Topic

Gentlemen,

Finishing the last details for an Austrian artillery group, I have plenty of gunners that are in need of employment. Reading Duffy, I found very brief description of battlefield use of howitzers. He (Duffy) states, third battalions of each regiment, were issued 7 lb howitzers in place of the standard battalion gun. I am thinking about ordering 6 howitzers.

Has anyone come across any text stating how they were used on the battlefield. My wargamer's sense thinks that a battery or two would simply impede the transfer of enemy support troops to a heavily engaged point of contact.

Cheers,
Robert

Hi Robert,

I'm rather curious about this issue and I'll be interested to read what the knowledgeable TMP-ers will say. If it's worth anything, I'm thinking of using howitzers as "battalion guns" for certain converged grenadier battalions. Not based on any reading (sorry for the low-key info!), just that in the WRG rules, that I rather like, the close-range canister capacity of howitzers is rather better than that of regular guns, so more close-up punching power, and they're marginally better against troops in cover – seems rather suitable for shock troops (rather like WW2 infantry would go in with an assault gun, if that's worth anything). I'm sure the rules are based on something, and I'm sure that's what a wise commander would do if he had some howitzers in his artillery park.

Hi Robert

Just had a flick through Duffy's 'Military Experience in the age of Reason' and found these:

'The most productive targets for howitzer fire were in fact not the infantrymen in the open field, but defended buildings (which were readily set on fire by the bursting shells) and the cavalry (whose horses might be thrown into a panic)'. p218

'Howitzer fire was particularly dreaded, for the shells searched out the cavalry in dead ground, and when they exploded in a tightly-packed regiment they were capable of killing 8 or 10 horses at a time and of terrifying many more'. p229

He also gives an example of a Prussian bombardier causing terrible damage to an Austrian battery with one as its explosive shells exploded two ammunition carts forcing the Austrians to abandon the battery. In the main though, Duffy stresses their use against cavalry and buildings/field fortifications.

Adam

In his 'Frederick the Great: A Military Life', Duffy argues that during the last phase of the SYW Fred increasingly used massed howitzers to soften up fortified Austrian positions. At Burkersdorf (1752), for example, he used several dozen howitzers to throw shells into the Austrian positions, before storming them:

link

@fff2008 and Adam,

Duffy does mention in his Army of Maria Theresa the advantages of cannister fire from howitzers, but not on any particular troop type. He also underscores their use in area bombardment and therefore my comment about deterring or delaying support troops from helping an engaged point of contact.

Howitzers are invariably listed among battlefield artillery and not siege guns, so they must have played a tactical role.

Also, firing at troops hidden in dead ground would be difficult to gauge it's effectiveness unless these enemies were seen leaving the area. I know as war gamers we do have an advantage of viewing the entire battlefield, but that may be why some rules restrain their effectiveness with a roll of the die.

Cheers,

Typo:
Burkersdorf (1762 not 1752)

In the case of the Austrians, I would think that their lighter weight, vis a vis the 12 pound field gun, and their ability to use cannister (more effective than that of a 3-pound field gun) would make them a better candidate for close support of infantry in the battalion.

Frederick writes about the advantages of having the heavier 10 pound howitzers in reserve for indirect fire on towns, fortifications and behind dead ground, but I don't know to what extent the theory was put into practice. Later in the war, when the manpower shortages were starting to tell, Frederick started experimenting with using heavier battalion guns (7pd howitzers and even 12 pound field guns)for close order infantry support.

Duffy lists the grand battery at Burkersdorf as consisting of 10x12pdr Brummers (heavy guns) and 45x7pdr and 12 pdr howitzers (By Force of Arms, p.355). If you want an army which regularly uses masses of howitzers (although not massed howitzers like at Burkersdorf) there are the Russians with licornes (a sort of gun-howitzer), Secret Howitzers (which fired mostly canister)and even some ordinary howitzers.

That is an impressive number. I do not recall any order of battle for the Austrians listing anywhere near that number.

Gentlemen, thanks for the information.
Cheers,

Howitzer fire was particularly dreaded, for the shells searched out the cavalry in dead ground, and when they exploded in a tightly-packed regiment they were capable of killing 8 or 10 horses at a time and of terrifying many more'. p229

Okay, a couple of comments. I will try hard not to get frustrated.

[1] Direct fire by high velocity cannon can not reliably hit EVERYTHING that you can see from the spot of the cannon. Sorry, it is not true. Do the math. You have to learn that the sinking of the cannonball in feet goes as the square of the time of flight. They were high velocity shots that didn't sink behind intervening barriers and they didn't have the smarts or equipment to push out cannon balls at varying fps. …. that is why most armies had about 1/3 of their barrels as licornes/howitzers. The projectiles from these sunk during their slow movement and could get at things that were "down". A solid shot or a hollow shot would not do a lot of damage then if it did get among the enemy. Hence the gunpowder packing and a fuze to get the iron fragments up to a speed where they could hurt. Do your really think that people back then were so frigging stupid that they dragged around the howitzers just to set fire to the odd village?

[2] The people back then were not incredibly stupid. They not only knew how to use the howitzer. They also knew that most of the artillery tubes were cannon, which worked best when there was a flat "bowling alley" kill zone to do them harm when they approached. So when under artillery fire, they used dips in the ground, high stone fences, local high spaces, clumps of trees, and quick movement (to keep the artillery from correcting their fire) to avoid getting killed. They were smart enough to figure out that getting killed was a bad thing. The howitzer was used to get at those nooks and crannies that the cannon couldn't get at. It also was a superior thing to put canister down range. The howitzers that were married to cannon in a battery usually had about 1/3 more shot and were faster to load. (shorter barrel and less recoil). Look at the ratios of ammo supplied to figure out the usage. Whether a canister round could go thu 7 soldiers or only 3 soldiers is not very important.

[3] Please forget about the modern field howitzers and mortars. Modern mortars typically can be elevated from a MINiMUM of 45 degrees to a max of 85 degrees. (The barrel weights 35 friggin pounds. ) Napoleonic howitzers might go up to 18 degrees or so, which is the max and NOT the center of the general usage. They are different things and don't get them confused. Napoleonic did not use "plunging fire", rather they used "sinking fire". Rethink things.

Noticed a few little…hmmm…misconceptions here.
#1 Converged grenadiers did not have battalion guns, especially Austrian at this time. Although grenadiers were frequently converged into ad hoc battalions they were not always converged and just as often assigned as individual companies. Prussians did have a more regular organization and the French of course had the Grenadiers de France.
#2 Have to agree with timurlank, 45-7pdr howitzers and 12-10pdrs?!? maybe in the entire army.
#3 Most armies, especially the Austrians and Prussians, would assign 1 or 2 as battalion guns. Typically an Austrian or Prussian regiment would have 2 battalion guns per battalion, i.e. 4 per regiment. They may have 1, or less often, 2 of these 3 or 6 pdrs replaced with a 7 pdr or similar howitzer.

1968 billsfan, you did an admirable job of not getting too frustrated. I was of a similar mind, the 18th and 19th century howitzers were good, but not that good. Frederick did seem to use more than the Austrians even though it was said that the Austrians gave him the idea in the first place.
I would suggest that people reference Kronoskaf, Project 7 Years War. They have the OOBs of all major engagements and some minor ones. I have never seen more than a dozen or so howitzers listed. Now in all fairness they do not always list the calibers of battalion guns so there may be a few more lighter howitzers than listed but never anything even approaching 45.
You must be ex-artillery, or just really well read with a high aptitude for the math.

Andrew Wellard, Frederick only had a total of 45 light 7pdr howitzers in the entire army in 1758, most of which were parceled out to the infantry battalions, 1 per battalion giving those battalions 3 field pieces.