"Starting War of the Roses - what rules?" Topic

I finally succumbed to the new Perry Miniatures range and bought a couple of boxes of infantry.

Now, does anyone have suggestions for a good ruleset? I'm more interested in fighting battles rather than skirmishes if that helps. I know that Warhammer Historical has a set of rules for this period, and I've also seen Field of Glory in my local book shop.

What rules do you think make for a fun game?

Bloody Barons by Peter Pig

"A Coat of Steel", free from the Perfect Captain link
Also available is the "A Crown of Paper" campaign game link

Terry Gore's Medieval Warfare is a very good set, and Jeff Ball's WOTR scenario booklet a great complement.

I agree with D6 Junkie. Bloody Barons gives the game lots of period flavour.

Simple: Flower of Chivalry, DBA
Medium: Medieval Warfare would make a more involved game.
Very Involved: Field of Glory

Just depends on what you are looking for. Can't speak for theother games mentioned. They would likely be fine too.

The Art of War covers ancients through end of medieval period with armies lists that outline the OB and drill limits. Simple and fast playing "skirmish feel" but scaled for full-sized battles. Single element basing makes combat very colorful and chaotic….

1066.us

Armati 2 has rules and army lists for WOTR's.

From my experience, A Coat of Steel (link posted above) does the single best job of capturing the essence of the War of the Roses hands down

I agree on all of the above comments with the following added:

Havent played/read "Flower of Chivalry" but have ordered it based on numerous rec's.

I love "Medieval Warfare" by Terry Gore. Its perfect for the period and there is a scenario book out by Terry Gore & Jeff Ball that has 13-15 WotR battles. You can pick it up still at OMM:
onmilitarymatters.com/pages
I would recommend this scenario book to anyone who plays WotR battles, regardless of rules. It covers all of the major battles and works for any rules.

I'm painting up some 28mm minis to try out the Field of Glory rules which look interesting upon reading. The WotR list is pretty accurate.

As for Bloody Barons, I have read them and am not a fan of the rules or the army lists. They do have some good pre-game mechanics that make the rules worth picking up.

When I get around to gaming WotR (Towton) in 10mm, I am going to give the Polemos rules a try (they are being written at the moment and if lucky, will be out in 2011).

Here is another suggestion that I have heard nothing about, but its cheap and it has a campaign game included:
link

Finally, here is some more reading on the subject:
TMP link
TMP link

Good luck, and let us know how the search works out.

PS. Some other good web sites for further info:
link
link
link
lanceandlongbow.com

Poleaxed 2 written specifically for the WotR,
available from freezywater publications.
They also have two source books covering all the battles.

We are using Poleaxed 2 for our Wars of the Roses games and they work really well. The source books are excellent and include every battle that they think will provide a good game, which is pretty much all of them.

I want to try A Coat of Steel because it looks good and has a campaign game available too but that will have to wait for now. The Polemos Wars of the Roses rules look good in the playtest version but I am not sure when they will become available.

I have also bought a couple of boxes, and await the new released with anticipation. I am giving serious consideration to the Impetus rules for this period. they seem easy, quick, and adaptable for solo play.

I will also now have another look at "A coat of Steel".

I am trying all of them til I find one I like – atlk to me of 'Poleaxed' = what is it like? What scales is it for?

Pat

Funny you should ask! My copy just arrived. I have breezed through it so can only give you a preliminary sum up, not a proper review. I have not received the scenario books either though I have both on order from OMM in the US.

Poleaxed 2.0:

Size is approximately 5" width by 7" tall. 52 pages in length, all b/w. The rules come with 1 two-sided chart for quick access to all game tables (of which there are few).

Rules are for any size minis. 6, 10 and 20-sided dice are required. For smaller battles, 1:20 is the suggested scale. 1:40 for battles with 20,000 men or more.

Ground scale: 12cms = 50 yards with 28mm minis,
8cms = 50 yards with 6, 10, or 15mm minis (I think!).

"Damage Points" asses a units fighting ability and subsequent degradation. Time is suggested at 1 "bound" is 10 minutes real time.

Order of play:
Command, action, declare charges, movement, shooting, charge, melee, results, rout, pursuit, rally.

Commanders have 5 different ratings which can be assigned or diced for. Morale has 6 classifications, armour 7 levels, and 3 classifications of troop type (melee, missile, skirmish). There are 6 different formations that troops can assume. Terrain classifications are standard.

Basing is not that important except that all of your troops follow the same guidelines. Movement trays are encouraged.

Troops can be assigned 7 different orders and are required to take "command" and "flinch" tests throughout the game.

A few optional rules are thrown in as is an example of play and a sample army.

I havent figured out how combat or shooting works out yet.

All and all, its quite a thorough set of rules for the price and in 50+ pages. It sounds (on first read) like it captures the essence of the age well, particularly command and control.

I will definitely give these a trial run against FoG's "Storm of Arrows" once I have some minis painted up.

Regardless of what rules I use, I will make good use of the two scenario books.

Hope that helps. I'm sure someone from the LaLS will be along shortly to fill in my gaps.

"Ground scale: 12cms = 50 yards with 28mm minis,
8cms = 50 yards with 6, 10, or 15mm minis (I think!)."

So you're going to need a pretty big table to do most battles of the WOTR.

Late 19th Century Colonial – North West Frontier mainly but also Boer War, Zulu War and the Sudan. 28mm and 6mm (yes 6mm!) skirmish using Ambush Alley, Chain Reaction 3 and Flying Lead

Napoleonic Peninsula – skirmish using "Song of Drums & Shakoes" in 28mm, big battle in 6mm using Humbersides DBA variant.

Dark Age – Viking adventures in 28mm using "Song of Blades and heroes"

Hmmm, the bug strikes again, since I didn't post anything related to 29th Century Colonial, Nappies, or the Dark Ages.

My other posting was recommending the Maximilian rules set, which are rather like big-battles DBA, only written in clear English, so they are much easier to understand.

"Maximilian rules set"

I had been wondering about those. Thanks for the tip!

Bloody barons.

I un-recommend Armati for WoTR.

the special rule adaptions are based on completely misundertanding what happened in the WoTR AND they make a poor game. not a good combinaiton.

Armati is much better for other periods, but anything medieval struggles because of the Longbow and Crossbow rules.

I will make a third recommendation for Coat of Steel and the campaign Crown of Paper. Very interesting set of rules.

For a convention game, Might of Arms works very well.

Definitely "A Coat of Steel," and "A Crown of Paper" from the Perfect Captain. The rules have a strong period flavor, magnificent graphics, copious references to Shakespeare, and they are free from a pair of amazing men. Highly recommended.

Piquet would be another good choice, due to some commanders and forces switching sides, and/or refusing to do battle, once it commences.

Of course, you could use any other rules set for this, and just create some action/even cards to deal with that, e.g.:

1. incredulously, commander X refuses to do battle in support of your army, once the fighting starts, and his troops simply stand in place, watching the action;

2. X's troops withdraw, before the battle begins, leaving a gaping hole on your left flank, and there is no time to adjust before the fighting commences in earnest;

3. X's cavalry attack you from the flank, or rear (you vow to avenge this traitorous action, should you survive the forthcoming battle).

Definitely Bloody Barons. Great command system, easy to play in an evening.

I would also recommend "Bloody Barons" by RFCM (Peter Pig)

"the campaign Crown of Paper"

I must say, I have not read Coat of Steel yet, but the above campaign game does look very interesting!

I'm also thinking about using the Richard III game as a campaign basis.

Only read (!) them so far, but the FoG WotR list looks pretty good (Heresy!) and so does Poleaxed 2.0

Thanks for all your suggestions guys! What a response.

I have decided to take a look at Bloody Barons, Poleaxed 2 and A Coat of Steel.

Thanks again.

You could do far worse! Let us know what you think.

Our local group just played a big battle of Tewkesbury, with DBA three. 50 stands of figures on each side with four players on each side. Played out very historically in 3 1/2 hours . The table was a little too small 4' x 8'. We are going to play it again next week on an 8 x 8' table.

I've played using Hail Caesar and Pike & Shotte, I found Hail Caesar to be the better option and it was an enjoyable evenings game.

Cheers
Ian

I agree that bloody barons has a great pre-game system, but not too fussed either the rules as a whole.

ADG handles the period very well and provides an enjoyable game to boot.

Medieval Warfare is a good set with support from a scenario book.

Don't forget to try Day of Battle!

Bloody Barons is bloody excellent.

Coat of steel as its all free

We are going to play it again next week on an 8 x 8' table.

Good luck reaching the middle……

They'll find a way. This thread found its way to the top six years later, so pushing minis across an eight foot table should be child's play….