"War of the Triple Alliance II" Topic

Sorry,I failed to properly cross post this the first time.

Can any one tell me what weapons (small arms mostly) were used by Paraguay, Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay during the conflict. was it mostly percussion rifles, muskets even? Where many breach loaders used by any side in any significant numbers?

Any info would be of interest so feel free to jump in with what even you have relating to the topic.

They used a variety of weapons, mostly muzzle loading percussion weapons but of a large number of types.

Your best bet is to get The Paraguayan War by Terry Hooker from Foundry. It is frequently on sale from them and I think I got my copy for $20. USD

Paraguayans mostly smoothbores, the Allies rifled weapons with breechloaders coming into use later in the war.

Elite Paraguayans might have rifles, even breechloaders.

I think the Allies used mostly rifle-muskets from the US and Europe. They even had some Dreyse needle guns

Dear Mr. fozzybear, hope I could help you with this…

link

If you need translation, please ask me, but you can see there the weapons on that war.

link

The photo show the weapons of the Uruguayan contingent.

link

More weapons (at the end of the page).

link

You can read about weapons en english.

Amicalement
Armand

Just use Google Chrome and Google will translate the page for you… :)

Hi Fozzybear. I'm from Brazil.

Brazilian soldiers were equipped with rifled-muskets throughout the war. The Brazilian Imperial government bought thousands of rifled-muskets at the beginning of the war, mostly from England and Belgium. Both line and volunteer battalions were equipped with rifled-muskets.

Brazil formed one battalion armed with the Prussian Dreyse needle gun. It was a disaster. The Dreyse was not suited for that kind of climate.

By 1868, all Brazilian cavalry regiments were equipped with the Spencer carbine.

Click on the images to enlarge them.

Brazilian rifled-muskets: picture

Spencer carbine: picture

Two captured Paraguayan cavalry swords (the first two from the bottom): picture

Btw…

My great-great-grandfather was an engineer and, when the war broke out, joined a volunteer unit. He received a commission as Lieutenant in the 2nd Volunteer Infantry Corps (actually a battalion), made the entire campaign, was wounded twice and awarded with many medals for bravery. He ended the war as a Lieutenant-Colonel and had a street named after him in Rio de Janeiro.

His unit, the 2nd Volunteers was formed in Rio de Janeiro in 1865 (Rio was the capital of the Brazilian Empire). Late in 1866, the unit was renumbered from 2nd to 24th Volunteers. The 24th suffered heavy casualties during the "dezembrada" – the bloody battles that finally destroyed the Paraguayan army in december of 1868 – and was disbanded in late 1868 (the survivors were absorbed into other units).

The 24th Volunteers started the month of december with 530 men in its ranks. After 2 battles (Itororo and the first attack against Lomas Valentinas), the battalion was left with only 93 effectives (the unit lost 437 men).

The official history of the Brazilian Volunteer units during the Paraguayan War was published in 8 volumes between 1978 and 1990. This work is simply fantastic.

Dezembrada (december campaign):

link

link

Wow. There you go, Fozzy. Can't get much better reply than that, for Brazil's weaponry at least.

Nice stuff, Cuirassier

;)

Very good stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you all :)

OK … now … who makes Mini's in 28 mm for this conflict?

Aw! I thought this was gonna be a 15mm project.

:(

Well … tell me about the 15mm stuff … I'm flexible lol

I was hoping you already had the info, and were going to tell us?

:)

I don't know, will Outpost's Pacific Wars range work for some figures? QRF Spanish/mexican ranges? WarModelling SAW Spanish and Cubans?

We need Cuirassier back here!!! :)

i'll do more research … i'll bet there is something out there.

QRF Spanish/mexican ranges?

Or you can always fall back to our dedicated 15mm Great Paraguayan War range… link

Geoff

LOL! Didn't know you had that range. Y'all have like a million figure ranges.

:)

I'm back. ;-)

Some plates for my friends…

Brazilian uniforms during the War of the Triple Alliance (campaign dress)

Click on the images to enlarge them.

Line Heavy Infantry (fusiliers): picture

Line Light Infantry (caçadores – chasseurs): picture

Volunteers (infantry battalions): picture

At the start of the war, some Volunteer Corps (battalions) had its own uniform. The uniform of the Volunteer battalions was standardized by 1867 (a good example of the standard uniform is the third soldier from the left).

Horse Artillery: picture

Foot Artillery: picture

Engineers: picture

Y'all have like a million figure ranges.

Not quite (although we have just bought something else…)

Cuirassier

I intend no political correctness here, but was the majority of the Brazilian "Regular Army" especially infantry, mostly Black men with white officers?? While the many volunteer units were mostly caucasians?? Were there any indian (native american) Brazilian units? This a very interesting, yet highly overlooked conflict by wargamers! It is good to have Brazilian and Argentine members to help clarify all our misconceptions. Thank you!

The Argentine Army had not "colour" units.
Even that, at that stage, probably, there were not much more "black" people at Argentina any more.

In the case of Brazil, Cuirassier hope knows much more.

But about I had read of the conflict, they had many mulatos, negroes, indians, etc which were taken to fight against the Paraguayans.
Not complete "indian" units in my memory.
Of course the officers were white as on the ACW.

Amicalement
Armand

docdennis1968,

Don't worry. This is still a very controversial topic, even today.

At the beginning of the war, thousands of volunteers enlisted in the volunteer units to defend their country's honor. Many of them were caucasians from the middle class (especially in the richer states).

The number of true volunteers was low in some of the poorer states. In these states, many slaves and convicts were enlisted as volunteers. The slaves were freed by their masters to fight in the war. The Imperial government compensated the slave owners for their losses.

Soldiers and officers from the National Guard and even the Police were transformed into volunteers.

So, many volunteers at the beginning of the war were caucasians indeed. This was the composition of the volunteer battalions that fought in 1865 and 1866. They fought with great determination, thus suffering heavy casualties at bloody battles like Estero Bellaco, Tuyuti, Curuzu and Curupaity.

At the start of the war, the soldiers and NCO's of the line infantry battalions (regular army) were mostly mulatos or blacks, under the command of mostly white officers. These mulatos/black soldiers were not slaves. This is important… they were not slaves, they were free men. Poor, but free.

A combination of battle casualties, sickness and disease (especially in 1867), took a heavy toll on the Brazilian units (both line and volunteer units).

Brazil nedeed new volunteers to continue the war.

By 1867, growing lists of casualties had largely dispelled dreams of a quick and glorious war that had attracted men in great numbers. The number of new volunteers was low, so the Imperial government turned once again to the slaves and the poor who were forced into the service. Again, the slaves were freed to fight and their masters were compensated.

Most soldiers and NCO's who served in the infantry battalions in 1868/1869 were mulatos or blacks (I could guess up to 70%).

The artillery (line units) and especially the cavalry units were mostly made up of caucasians.

Btw… I forgot to post this plate…

Cavalry: picture

Thank you sir for the very important information on this neglected period ( For us North Americans and Europeans too I guess)! For anyone who is thinking about wargaming this period, the "racial/ethnic" make up of the various units is something we should try to get at least as correct as possible to give due respect to the men who served in this brutal conflict on all sides!

Really great links for the Brazilians, thanks Cuirassier. Would love to wargame this one day. Anyone have any links to uniforms for the Paraguayans and Argentinians?

No much time now, but here you can see some uniforms.

Uruguayan Army.

link

Argentine and Paraguayan.

link

Tomorrow I would research more.

Amicalement
Armand

I dub Cuirassier the "official hero of this thread"!

About get's me to throw some dice in this genre!

:)

Great responses people, again as always, thank you all for such great input, makes me want to game this era too. I know FAR to little of South America's History, my apologies to my neighbors to the south.

Fozzy

Thanks for that Armand, if you find any more, post it up.

Cheers,

Ian.

Armand,

I have to say… I, as Brazilian, really can't stand some of the comments made by Argentinians and, especially, Paraguayans.

People are blinded by ideology, regionalism and old rivalries. To many south americans, Brazilian soldiers were all blacks, slaves and cowards. Even today, many Paraguayans are used to call them "monkeys". This is really sad.

I'm a very impartial guy. I respect the Argentinean fighting man. I admire the Paraguayan soldiers. Even outnumbered and poorly equipped, they fought with great tenacity in defense of their country.

I'm not attacking you, Armand. I know you to be a very fair minded person.

Btw, I love Buenos Aires. :)

Warning:

Dear friends,

This book (I've posted the link before): link , is generally a good book, but I found some erros on it. Just warning you guys.

I'm glad to see that this war is starting to get some attention.

What we need is a couple of Ospreys to get started with and a couple of (English Language) histories to get in deeper. With all the off the wall subjects Osprey has done, how could they have missed THIS?? Or did they do it and I am the one who has missed it??

I heard on an old post that someone went to Osprey with an offer to write a history of the War of the Triple Alliance but they turned him down.

I have Terry Hooker's book – no idea if it has errors, but it reads well with lots of information.

Cuirassier and En Avant – can you email me please. I would like to discuss something with you.

Geoff@quickreactionforce.co.uk

Geoff,

Terry Hooker's book is good and it really reads well. I just found some (mostly small) errors… but thinking again, you can discover errors in any book. ;)

I will send the e-mail later today.

Well, with more time here we go with more uniforms and info.

Paraguayan infantry uniform

link

Paraguayan Cavalry uniform

link

Paraguayan Artillery uniform

link

Elite Paraguayan Cavalry ("Acà Carayá" Regiment) ("Monkey Head Reg.). Now scort of the President.

link

link

Elite Paraguayan Infantry ("Acà Verá" Reg.) ("Shine Head")

link

Tudo ben con vosé Curassier. No problem. It was MANY years ago and remember that Brazil and Argentina went to war ( a hard one) and NOBODY remember it!.
The Problem with the Triple Aliance is that became in a genocide of a brother country.
I would wrote about it next.

Amicalement
Armand

Now, more Argentinian Uniforms.

link

link

About the War, it began with enthusiams from the four countries involved but in Argentina people in General (exception from Buenos Aires Capital City) didn't want to fight against the Paraguayans, so the rate of desertion was incredible hight. Before the battle of Curupaity (a real massacre. A frontal infantry atack to a very strong point.) the Argentine Army was cut to pieces and the Uruguayan Army disappeared on that field. The Brasilians didn't put any infantry and only their fleet which didn't made any harm to the Paraguayan positions (there was the point when became the "problem" between allied). Casualties were amount to thousands of killed and wounded and the Paraguayan forces only lost 17 man (!). From this moment, the Argentine people began a revolt against the War and next year Argentina defeated and Brasil continue alone. At that stage there were not more Uruguayan or Paraguayan Army. Only some rest of battered units. The Brasilians forces continue chasing Solano Lopez and his tiny forces thought their country making a real damage to civl population. Even the atack on Asunción was a massacre of the "Costa Ñu childrens" the Regiment of little boys from 8 to 11 years old which put with glue on his faces horse hear to look olders. In this "battle" as the Brasilian forces amount many casualties and cannot destroy the boys, their put on fire their position. All the mothers which were near suffering with the lost of their little boys run to them and all the mothers and childrens died there. The last years of the War were not a war, it was a truly genocide.
But Argentina and Uruguay were not more in the war.

It was the most dark page of South America History.
For all the countries involved!.

The best scenary to play the Triple Aliance is the first two years of that war.

Amicalement
Armand

Armand,

You wrote: "Before the battle of Curupaity (a real massacre. A frontal infantry atack to a very strong point.) the Argentine Army was cut to pieces and the Uruguayan Army disappeared on that field. The Brasilians didn't put any infantry and only their fleet which didn't made any harm to the Paraguayan positions".

This is wrong. At Curupaity, the allied forces suffered approximately 4.000 casualties. Of those 4.000 casualties, half of them were Brazilian soldiers!

You wrote: "The Brasilians forces continue chasing Solano Lopez and his tiny forces thought their country making a real damage to civl population. Even the atack on Asunción was a massacre of the "Costa Ñu childrens" the Regiment of little boys from 8 to 11 years old which put with glue on his faces horse hear to look olders. In this "battle" as the Brasilian forces amount many casualties and cannot destroy the boys, their put on fire their position. All the mothers which were near suffering with the lost of their little boys run to them and all the mothers and childrens died there. The last years of the War were not a war, it was a truly genocide."

I resent your remark. After Curupaity, it took more than 2 years to finally defeat the backbone of the Paraguayan army. In december 1868 alone, the allied forces suffered more than 9.000 combat casualties (8.600 Brazilian casualties). It was no cakewalk.

The Paraguayan capital fell on January 1869. The war should have ended there, but no… the Paraguayan dictator, Solano Lopez, chose to continue the war with an army composed of children and elderly.

Genocide? Are you joking? Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. Brazil never intentionally targeted civilians. I would very much like to see proof of that.

Even Pedro Juan Caballero, the best Paraguayan general, praised the behavior of the Brazilian soldier. Of course, there was some unfortunate incidents, but very few.

Who invaded who first? My country was invaded by Paraguayan forces. Brazilian villages were plundered and sacked. Brazilian women were raped.

Yeah, the war was a sad and tragic affair. The battle of Acosta Ñu was really tragic. However, Brazil was invaded by Paraguay and the war couldn't end without the removal of Solano Lopez from power. Solano Lopez brought disaster to his own country.

By the way, my ancestor was wounded at Acosta Ñu. He was shot by one of those children (actually teenagers). Many years after the battle, he wrote a letter commenting how sad it was to see those dead and wounded teenagers.

Armand,

You wrote: "All the mothers which were near suffering with the lost of their little boys run to them and all the mothers and childrens died there."

All the mothers?! Paraguayan propaganda.

------------------------------------------------------

This book was written by George Thompson, an English engineer who was Lieutenant-Colonel of Engineers in the Paraguayan army and aide-de-camp to Lopez: link

Thompson wrote about the beginning of the war… How Brazil was invaded and what happened to the city of Corumbá:

Read chapter II: "OF THE CAUSES WHICH LED TO THE PARAGUAYAN WAR, AND THE COMMENCEMENT OF THE SAME BY LOPEZ II AGAINST BRAZIL" One more time… Solano Lopez started the war. Lopez attacked Brazil.

Read chapter III: "THE PARAGUAYAN EXPEDITION TO MATO GROSSO"

Mato Grosso (Brazilian state) was attacked and many cities were sacked by the Paraguayans. Thompson wrote about it:

Pages 35-36: "Corumbá was the chief commercial town of the province of Mato Grosso, and a great deal of valuable booty was taken in it. The inhabitants had hidden themselves in the surrounding woods, and Barrios [Colonel Barrios – the commander of the expedition] sent and brought them back. Their houses were already completely sacked… The women were ill-treated, and Barrios himself took the lead in it.
All whom Barrios took he put to the question, and those who did not give or did not possess the information he required were beaten by his order, and some of them lanced to death as spies."

Did you know about that, Armand? There are many other examples of Paraguayan war crimes.

Brazilians never behaved like that. I mean… Thousands of soldiers, under superior orders to rape and murder.

OH Oh! Sounds like some of the tone we get on the USA ACW discussion boards. I guess human nature is the same , really, North and South! (Hemispheres) Serious topics bring forth serious viewpoints, this is certainly no different!

docdennis1968,

Yes, I agree with you. But I just want to clarify things and I'm presenting evidences and sources.

I've selected a few important points to debate with anyone who wishes to do so.

- Solano Lopez started this "crazy" war.

- Brazil was invaded by Paraguayan forces. Two states were invaded: Rio Grande do Sul and Mato Grosso. Many cities and villages were plundered and sacked. Brazilians were raped and murdered under superior orders. Under superior orders… this is important. GEORGE THOMPSON, WHO WAS AIDE DE CAMP TO SOLANO LOPEZ, WROTE ABOUT THE PARAGUAYAN INVASION AND PARAGUAYAN WAR CRIMES. HE SAW THINGS FIRST HAND.

- Brazil NEVER intentionally targeted civilians. I would very much like to see proof of that. Even Pedro Juan Caballero, the best Paraguayan general and a decent human being, praised the behavior of the Brazilian soldier. Of course, there was some unfortunate incidents, but very few.

- At Curupaity, Brazil lost 2.000 men, 2.000 infantry soldiers. Armand was wrong when he said "The Brasilians didn't put any infantry and only their fleet which didn't made any harm to the Paraguayan positions". I can provide many sources to prove what I'm saying.

- Up until January 1869, the war was no picnic. Brazil suffered at least 70.000 casualties (combat related or not) between 1865 and december of 1868. Paraguayans were outnumbered and poorly equipped, but they were almost always on the defensive on entrenched positions. Btw, I really admire the sacrifices made by the Paraguayan soldiers trying to defend their country.

- For us Brazilians, Solano Lopez could not stay in power. The man was a bloody dictator who started the war. He ordered the invasion of my country.

Finally, I would like to say that the war really was tragic. Paraguayan civilians suffered a lot (especially from hunger), but Brazilian troops didn't systematic murdered or raped them. No Brazilian superior officer ordered such thing… never.

Who all has read the book listed above? The Paraguayan War by Terry Hooker I did see that listed at Foundry I believe, is this a good book? I think Geoff you said yes it was good and i think Cuirassier you agreed, despite a few inaccuracies …

One last thing.

Sadly, in the 1960's and 1970's some south american left-oriented "historians" (including Brazilians) created some absurd myths about the war. Among the absurds, "Brazil orchestrated the genocide of the Paraguayan people" and "Great Britain forced Brazil to make war against Paraguay". These so-called "historians" called Solano Lopez a "hero and liberator". Liberator? My God…

Many of these "historians", if not all, intentionally ommitted many facts. For example:

- Solano Lopez started the war.
- Paraguayan forces first invaded Brazil.
- Paraguayan soldiers badly treated captured Brazilian civilians and soldiers.
- Paraguayan troops badly treated captured allied soldiers.
- Solano Lopez ordered the execution of thousands of Paraguayans, including members of his own family.

I could go on…

Fortunately, in the last 20 years or so, serious south american historians debunked most of those absurd myths (if not all of them) created by the leftist "historians". Miguel Ángel del Marco, an Argentinian, is one of the serious historians. Francisco Doratioto, a Brazilian historian, is another one. These guys are fair and balanced, there's no room for cheap ideology.

Btw Armand, Doratioto's book was published in your country in 2004, and received great praise over there.

Take a look: link

Doratioto researched in Brazilian, Argentinean, Paraguayan, Uruguayan, British and French archives.

-------------------------------------------------------

A correction…

I wrote: "Up until January 1869, the war was no picnic. Brazil suffered at least 70.000 casualties (combat related or not) between 1865 and december of 1868. Paraguayans were outnumbered and poorly equipped, but they were almost always on the defensive on entrenched positions."

At least 70.000 casualties (combat related or not). The correct figure probably is 85.000 casualties between 1865 and late 1868. Brazilians fought hard and suffered to win this war.

Cuirassier

Well sir I certainly understand revisionist history and its pitfalls. As I hinted earlier, we in the USA, have had a good share of the same thing on our own mid 19th Century Conflicts with Mexico, the various Western Indian Nations and most extensively our War Between the States.

The conflicts were harsh enough, with plenty of blame and responsibilty to go around on all sides. It does no good to demonize one side and hold the other blameless. It does no good to atribute evil designs for one group and innocence for the other. Many leaders and soldiers in both our Hemipheres conflicts were less than saints in their actions, but I believe that most of them simply did what they thought they had to do under horrendous circumstances!

I do not absolve everything, but I hesitate to condemn also!! War makes barbarians of us all, winners and losers!

Your comments on "your" Great National Conflict are very well presented and hope they help to generate more intrest in this neglected subject (up North)!!

Well said, docdennis1968.

As I said before…

Brazil was invaded by Paraguayan forces. Two states were invaded: Rio Grande do Sul and Mato Grosso. Many cities and villages were plundered and sacked. Brazilians were raped and murdered under superior orders. Under superior orders… this is important. GEORGE THOMPSON, WHO WAS AIDE DE CAMP TO SOLANO LOPEZ, WROTE ABOUT THE PARAGUAYAN INVASION AND PARAGUAYAN WAR CRIMES. HE SAW THINGS FIRST HAND.

Brazil NEVER intentionally targeted civilians. I would very much like to see proof of that. Even Pedro Juan Caballero, the best Paraguayan general and a decent human being, praised the behavior of the Brazilian soldier.

The war really was tragic. Paraguayan civilians suffered a lot (especially from hunger), but Brazilian troops didn't systematic murdered or raped them. No Brazilian superior officer ordered such thing… never.

HOWEVER…

Throughout the war, a handful of Brazilians did commit war crimes. These were isolated incidents, but those men, perhaps 250, were brought before a court martial and many of them were convicted. I never heard of a Paraguayan soldier (or officer) convicted by war crimes during the war.

Some Paraguayan officers were outraged by the behavior of Solano Lopez and some of the Paraguayan superior officers.

Lopez was a bloody dictator. Between June 19 and December 14 1868, 596 prisoners were executed or died in prison after harsh interrogation (aka torture). This data was taken from Solano Lopez' own diary. This list is only of those stated to have been concerned with an allegedly conspiracy against Lopez (see Thompson's book page 323). In fact, many more were executed during that period. Keep in mind, perhaps 1.000 prisoners, mostly innocent, were executed in a period of just 6 months. Thompson tells all.

Lopez executed and tortured members of his own family, including his own sisters.

This was the man who started and prolonged the war.

Amigo Curassier… Paraguayan propaganda?.

Well, I'm guilty. I had visited many times Paraguay and of couse I had buyed many books of the Triple Alianza wrote by them. Did you?.

If you read books from each side, of course each country point to their own Army as the most sacrificed, heroes, etc.

The invation of Brasil was not because Solano Lopez decided one day invaded a country 100 times bigger than his own… he was crazy maybe… but not that crazy.
Remember the Baring Brothers Co…
Remember the White and Red parties on Uruguay.
Paraguay had a legal agreement with Uruguay and this defense-ofense agreement cleary show that in case of danger they had to support each other.
Who made the job to overthow the "White" Goberment in favour to the "Red" party?.

About Curupaity, I had to remember the words of the Almiral Tamandaré who had said. "In dos horas descangahlarei tudo Isso" (In two hours I would destroy everything)and with his fleet with include three big modern battleships he began the bombardement far away from the Paraguayan Bateries range!. I had some draws from Paraguayans soldiers of that Era sitting on the beach of the river laughing of the shell of the brasilians artillery on the water!. Tamandaré never hit a single paraguayan soldier but he continue assuring that the fortresses was out!.
So, he was the big guilty of the dead of so many soldiers.

But really… I don't want to began a great fight here because I know that each country had their own point of view of the War.
I had Brasilians books too and each side had their vision.

In my personal opinion, the war against a brother country never could finished as it did.
The chase of Solano Lopez and his few men for all over his country was not glorious at all.
About rape, destrucction etc. the norm was the same as history show us in all the big conflicts.

If you visit the forums of this theme on any of the countries involved (included the Uruguayan which fought too) any part agree with the other.

As I had said, it was the worst moment in the history or our Continent.

Amicalement
Armand

Armand,

How many Brazilian soldiers became casualties at Curupaity? Just answer me that.

You wrote: "Before the battle of Curupaity (a real massacre. A frontal infantry atack to a very strong point.) the Argentine Army was cut to pieces and the Uruguayan Army disappeared on that field. The Brasilians didn't put any infantry and only their fleet which didn't made any harm to the Paraguayan positions".

Well, sir… my country lost 2.000 soldiers at Curupaity.

I never said the war was glorious.

Btw, in many cases I'm quoting Thompson who was close to Solano Lopez throughout the war. Solano Lopez was indeed a bloody dictator who executed thousands of prisoners.

Paraguayan forums… I tried to participate two or three time, but I found the Paraguayans use the word "monkeys" much too often to describe us Brazilians. I'm caucasian, but I really can't stand racism torwards anyone, any race.

Btw Armand, I'm a moderator on another forum and I would like to invite you to join us. I'm "Zouave" over there, moderator of the Napoleonic Era sub-forum. Here's the link: link

Take care.

Meu Amigo Cuirassier, if your only wish is that I had to answered your questions, comments, observations, etc but not same way with mine, it isn't fear.

But, to put an end to this episody which spirit was to talk about uniforms, I declared.

You are right. There were brasilians infantry troops in Curupaity.(The IIº Corpo do Exercito Brasileiro to the left of the Iº (Center), IIº (right)Argentine Corps and the little Div. of Uruguayans)
About casualties, you can read on books from 10 thousands to 4 thousands. The amount had so many variations as authors.

And…

You are rignt, Solano Lopez was an evil dictador and Brasil was complety innocent on this war.

You are right, the Paraguayans historians only wrote propaganda and not memories from the little amount of soldiers which can survive the conflict.

You are right, Brasil had all the rights to chase Solano Lopez, his wife, his children of 13 years old (Which show the rank of Colonel of the President scort), his Vicepresident of more than 70 years old and BLIND, his scort of only 73 man, etc etc.

You are right, the "negro" soldier which finally killed Solano Lopez with his bayonnet when he was hit so many times and lide in the grass was an heroe.

You are right, the burning and destroying of so many little towns because Solano had been there was necesary.

You are right, mostly of the Brasilian Army were caucasians and the negroes, mulatoes, indians, etc were all voluntaires because they had advantages to be in the Army of the country which trade whith them in a so humanitarian way.

You are right, there is no cause that Paraguayan guys today called "monkeys" to Brasilian guys because they had lost onlt the 77% of their male population at the Triple Aliance(not all in battle of course).

You are right, the Brasilian Army was in the right way when they destroyed the only one train railroad in SouthAmerica on that era, and the only industrial frame.

You are right, when our Congress declared that "Victory didn't give us rights to the surrenders" and we were who took the Paraguayan Amazon territories to our benefice.

You are right that it was heroic to fought the childrens (teenagers!) of Costa Ñu, also the Regiment of Blind people (rememer that?) the crips and wounded which defended Asunción from the Great Brasilian Army and … with wood mosketons (as toys!) because they had not any weapon to give to their troops!.

You are right that Almirante Tamandaré was a very courageous guy.

You are right that the mothers of those "teenagers" which with glue had put false beards with horse hair to looks like veteran soldiers, never wait the fate of their little childrens near the battle camp and never run to tried to save them when the flames began to kill them alive. They decided to run far away from their own sons early in the morning.

You are right that it was a very glorious war to be proud of it.

As Argentine, the only think I'm proud is that my country defeated the war when the Paraguayan guys still had an army to fought.

Well, about your kindly offerd to participate in your forum, I really apreciated it and said many thanks. I swear that when I had a minute free I would visit it.

By the war, what's your opinion of the second big war from the Paraguayan, the "Guerra del Chaco" between Bolivia and Paraguay?. There, they had lost 50% of their male population too.!

Muito Obrigado
Armand
Ps: I had lived and visited some States of Brasil during 15 years. A marvellous country with the most good people I had never seen. My respect to them which are our brothers…now.

A slightly dated, but vaguely pertinent joke:

Aide to President Bush – 'Sir, two Brazilian soldiers have died in Iraq'. Bush – 'Oh my God! (Looks pensive for a moment) 'Say, remind me…how many is a Brazilian?'.

Yeah Armand… very mature. Your last post was very mature. Congratulations.

But I take offense with these statement: "You are right that it was heroic to fought the childrens (teenagers!) of Costa Ñu, also the Regiment of Blind people (rememer that?) the crips and wounded which defended Asunción from the Great Brasilian Army and … with wood mosketons (as toys!) because they had not any weapon to give to their troops!"

AND

"You are right that it was a very glorious war to be proud of it."

AND

"You are right, mostly of the Brasilian Army were caucasians and the negroes, mulatoes, indians, etc were all voluntaires because they had advantages to be in the Army of the country which trade whith them in a so humanitarian way."

AND

"You are right, the burning and destroying of so many little towns because Solano had been there was necesary."

AS I CLEARLY WROTE BEFORE:

"I never said the war was glorious."

AND

"The war was a sad and tragic affair. The battle of Acosta Ñu was really tragic."

AND

"By the way, my ancestor was wounded at Acosta Ñu. He was shot by one of those children (actually teenagers). Many years after the battle, he wrote a letter commenting how sad it was to see those dead and wounded teenagers."

AND

"At the beginning of the war, thousands of volunteers enlisted in the volunteer units to defend their country's honor. Many of them were caucasians from the middle class (especially in the richer states).

The number of true volunteers was low in some of the poorer states. In these states, many slaves and convicts were enlisted as volunteers. The slaves were freed by their masters to fight in the war. The Imperial government compensated the slave owners for their losses.

So, many volunteers at the beginning of the war were caucasians indeed. This was the composition of the volunteer battalions that fought in 1865 and 1866. They fought with great determination, thus suffering heavy casualties at bloody battles like Estero Bellaco, Tuyuti, Curuzu and Curupaity.

At the start of the war, the soldiers and NCO's of the line infantry battalions (regular army) were mostly mulatos or blacks, under the command of mostly white officers. These mulatos/black soldiers were not slaves. This is important… they were not slaves, they were free men. Poor, but free.

A combination of battle casualties, sickness and disease (especially in 1867), took a heavy toll on the Brazilian units (both line and volunteer units).

Brazil nedeed new volunteers to continue the war.

By 1867, growing lists of casualties had largely dispelled dreams of a quick and glorious war that had attracted men in great numbers. The number of new volunteers was low, so the Imperial government turned once again to the slaves and the poor who were forced into the service. Again, the slaves were freed to fight and their masters were compensated.

Most soldiers and NCO's who served in the infantry battalions in 1868/1869 were mulatos or blacks (I could guess up to 70%)."

AND

"Throughout the war, a handful of Brazilians did commit war crimes. These were isolated incidents, but those men, perhaps 250, were brought before a court martial and many of them were convicted. I never heard of a Paraguayan soldier (or officer) convicted by war crimes during the war."

So, you are clearly trying to ridicularize me.

Just to be clear… No war is truly glorious.

I thought the debate was civil until your last post. Now, it's not anymore.

I'm retiring from this thread. If you want to continue the debate, please send me a PM.

I agree with you when you said that Brazil is "a marvellous country with the most good people I had never seen."

Of course, I'm suspect to say that. :-)

Take care.

Please everybody … I hope we can all let our passions not get the better of us…

Cuirassier… Your input have been of such great value, i would hate to see you drop off this thread.

Armand … I hope my having started this thread did not inadvertently cause you offense.

My hopes were only for more information regarding equipment, uniforms and weaponry of this conflict.

I did not want to cause conflict with anyone.