"WWII British Armoured Squadron Turret Markings" Topic

(Loosely linked to Guards Armoured topic)…

What were the rules governing colour and shape of British Armoured Squadron markings? Did the numbers designate call-signs and if so how were they numbered?

If you mean the Squadron shape markings, it thusly;
'A' Squadron; Triangles,
'B' Squadron; Squares,
'C' Squadron; Circles,
Headquarters Squadron; Diamonds. In a 3 regiment brigade, the Senior regiment had Red shapes, next senior, Yellow, and the junior Regiment, Blue. In Guards Armoured this equated to Grenadier tanks, Red, Coldstream, Yellow, and Irish, Blue. Corps units, ie, the Welsh Guards Cromwell Armoured Recce regiment, had White shapes, with a 4th Squadron having a bar shape (vertical), white also goes for the armoured car regiment (2nd Lifeguards, I think). The motor rifle batallion halftracks used the same system, companies instead of Squadrons, in Green. The shapes often had numbers inside them, often a call sign, but usually just for identification.

Hope this helps.

John

Markings were distinguished in the brigade by color: Senior regiment red, next senior is yellow, third is blue.

Squadron markings within each regiment: 1st squadron triangles, 2nd squares, 3rd circles. HQ uses a diamond. All the markings within the regiment are in the colors described above.

Sometimes one sees a number inside the squadron symbol. This is the number of the troop, which were number sequentially through the regiment. So if the unit has 5 troops per squadron, 1-5 are part of 1st squadron, 6-10 are 2nd, 11-15 are 3rd.

At least that's how I remember it, and how I marked my Guards Tank brigade Churchill, so no one try to correct me, please!

Well, at least John agrees with me…

But I were first, so you agree with me! non?

Teeheehee

For a whole world of glorious Britsh rivet counting, I totally recommend Jean Boucherys book; The Britsh Soldier, Vols 1 and 2, 2 for the tanky stuff.
It gets a slating from the purists, mainly, I suspect, because of it 'Beano-annual' style, but I've used it to death for my Guards Armoured Division project over the years.

John

Genius. I've never seen this information laid out so clean and simple. Cheers guys!

But being the British Army, it wasn't always that way! GAD practices differed from those of the other AD in NW Europe. Bouchery is good but Dick Taylor's 'Warpaint' (Vol 2) is possibly even better when it comes to making some sort of sense out of the varied marking schemes used.

British WWII vehicle markings comprise a subject where you don't really need an extensive reference tome for the system; you need an extensive reference tome for the *exceptions*.

Allen

Or in pictures link

Or in pictures link

Wasn't the Firefly troop an exception rather than the norm, ie, FFs were parceled out 1 per troop? It kind of loses credibility right off the bat….

Also the silhouettes of the Sherman are just… weird.
--
Tim

Tim the aim is to represent the regiment at 1:platoon scale. So you either loose the Fireflys totally or represent them in aggregate at the squadron level.

You are right about the Sherman pics looking odd. Maybe they have rescaled badly, I'll have another look at that.

"I've never seen this information laid out so clean and simple."

That is because it isn't. As Allen says, you need a large tome of exceptions e.g. some units put their 'turret' markings on the hulls….

There are certainly guidelines, but much of it was within the whim and purview of the regimental CO.

The turret markings didn't generally correspond with radio callsigns either.

Which specific regiment are you interested in and in what time period?

This is true, I've seen piccies of Coldcream tanks with the squadron markings on the hull sides, also Grenadier tanks with them on the front glacis, and the rear of the turret. Both were from the Goodwood action, where all AFVs had white turret tops, of course, just to add to the weirdness.

John

and I've never seen a Goodwood game (yet) which has all the top surfaces painted white…gauntlet down.

Martin, think you missed what I was saying there ref. 'clean and simple'. I know that regulation rarely finds its way into reality in a uniform way across a huge beast – hell, I've been in the Army 5 years and our callsign markings etc weren't the same in war between Company's, let alone battalions! However, it's a good start point from where you can indulge in artictic/regimental licence!

Thanks