"Tabletop Games re: Active Service Press" Topic

Does anyone have an email address for Tabletop Games or Dave Polhill please?
TTG seem to still be printing and selling sets of rules written by myself and Tim Hall and we've never seen a penny from them since the 1980s. They are the former Active Service Press titles:

Death In A Distant Land
When Johnny Comes Marching Home
Indian Mutiny Skirmish Rules

In anticipation, cheers.

TTG still exists? I thought they went out of business? The 15mm lines are with 15mm.co.uk anyway. I've not seen any of there other games for sale except for ebay.

Didn't they change hands a few years ago? I believe the new owners went to some lengths to track down the authors of the rules etc. Not sure if they are still around – one of their retailers like Caliver Books might know.

Apparently, they are owned by Dave Polhill based in Newbury – that's as far as I've been able to get.

It isn't that I particularly mind them printing and distributing some old rules we wrote, but ASP never paid us anything baring some "at trade prices" Redoubt figures when they were the distributor and wargame show stockists. Never had a penny from Bob Connor all those years and despite the previous owners being friendly and wanting to sort the situation out – nothing – now its apparently changed hands again.

I have been trying to contact Dave Polehill for over a year now without any success.

now its apparently changed hands again

So Dave Polehill no longer owns TTG ?

come on guys and gals someone must know something

link

Following Taken from adove linked site, appears to give some contact details;

"From 14th June 2004 Tabletop Games will be under new ownership.

Dave Polhill will be taking over the business which will now be located in Reading, Berkshire.
The company currently offers their own extensive range of rules, scenarios and source books; rules and supplements from many other publishers; Osprey books; flags; micro amour and naval miniatures. New product lines are being added all the time.

Secure online ordering and catalogue downloads should be available via their website
(www.tabletopgames.com) from late summer 2004.

In additional to mail order, they plan to attend many of the southern UK shows and a few of
the larger ones further north.

They may be a short delay as they work through the backlog of orders and catalogue
requests. Please contact them if you have an outstanding order or would like a copy of their
latest catalogue. Trade enquiries and submissions of material for publication are also always
welcome.

Tabletop Games Ltd.
Reading Enterprise Hub
The University of Reading
Earley Gate
Reading
RG6 6AU
Tel: 0118 935 7369
Fax: 0118 935 7330
dave@tabletopgames.com
"

Or try;

link

Tabletop Games Ltd.
Unit 5
Old Station Business Park
Compton
Newbury
Berkshire
RG20 6NE

Telephone: 01635-579455

Companies House
Registration Number: 3143382

Details according to yell.com –
Tabletop Games Ltd
Tel: 01635 578667
Unit 5, Old Station Business Park, Compton, Newbury, Berkshire RG20 6NE

Note differing telephone numbers. If they are limited company by the way, you can get the contact details from Companies House too.

A check on companies house gives you:
link

Name & Registered Office:
TABLETOP GAMES LIMITED
ROCKMILL HOUSE
CHELTENHAM ROAD
STROUD
GLOUCESTERSHIRE
GL6 6LF
Company No. 03143382

Status: Active – Proposal to Strike off
Date of Incorporation: 03/01/1996

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
5263 – Other non-store retail sale

Accounting Reference Date: 30/06
Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/06/2007 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL)
Next Accounts Due: 30/04/2009 OVERDUE
Last Return Made Up To: 03/01/2008
Next Return Due: 31/01/2009 OVERDUE

Last Members List: 03/01/2008

Previous Names:
Date of change Previous Name
12/05/2004 AES (UK) LIMITED
31/01/1996 CHELTRADING 113 LIMITED

link

Death in a distant Land appears to be for sale here.
Telephone +44(0)1465 841677
email: sales@15mm.co.uk
PO Box 8207 Girvan KA26 0YB Scotland, Tel: +44(0)1465 841677

not sure if they are linked in any way.

Cheers Goose, that's how I spotted they were still be sold. It's a bit naughty for TTG in whatever guise or ownership to be selling the rules without the authors permission. I've tried that email address and got nothing at all.

Stoodly

email me at oldsmokie65ATgooglemailDOTcom

Domain name: 15mm-md.com

Registrant Contact:
Jim Syme
Jim Syme ()

Fax:
PO Box 8207
Girvan, Scotland, 00000
GB

It looks like Mr Jim Syme is the registered owner.
Also same details listed for;
link

If you look at Alternative Armies, they list the same trading address and report to be in the T&Cs – "Alextor Ltd".

Companies house say their registered address is;

Name & Registered Office:
ALECTOR LTD.
THE OLD FORGE
28 FIELD ROAD, BUSBY
GLASGOW
G76 8SE
Company No. SC198467

Their website states "The Company means Alector Ltd. whose main office is at PO Box 8207, Girvan, Ayrshire, KA26 0YB, Scotland" I have an inkling, that when I was looking to set up a ltd company, it was illegal to use a P.O Box address, but I could be very wrong there.

Anyways, hope you get it sorted one way or the other.

I have found this also;
link

Edit- Though the gazzete does carry official insolvancy info, it appears they are only listed in the "suppliment" with a "D1" coding, meaning they submitted their books. So appears are still trading, which is supported by companies house site saying they are still active. So I would direct your contact attempts over the issue to Alector Ltd.

Remember to send letters recorded. Hope you get it all sorted out in the end.

I haven't spoken to Dave for a few years now. We used to deal with them in the ID Gaming days. All my dealings with them were superb Dave and his staff would bend over backwards for us. They, along with SMG were two of the distributors used by Mongoose Publishing and did a damn fine job (in my humble opinion).

From the last time I spoke to one of the people who worked for him, Dave was (at the time) seriously ill. I hope he is still with us….

Goose I've contacted 15mm md and got a rather terse nothing to do with me reply!

I know Dave personally. Will forward a link to this thread.

Cheers Hobbybox – I would like to get this sorted out.

More to the point Hobbybox – how is he ?

I knew he'd been ill but then lost contact completely.

Far as I know Dave is doing quite well.

He's attending a lot of rock festivals!

Presumably Old Smokie and myself have been picking up his beer bill without knowing it then?

The Hobbybox wrote

Far as I know Dave is doing quite well

If thats the case, why hasn't he let people know what is happening to TTG, some of us may have been able to help.

Still no word from him, no doubt his ears are ringing with the music and he's still hung over from the alcohol purchases we've unknowingly purchased for him.

Still nothing from him. We're heading for the outdoor gig season too. If we don't hear from him soon he'll have spent all the money he owes us on beer and magic mushrooms.
Seriously, don't care what he's personal situation might be, he could have the bloody decency to make an effort to contact people he's been turning over for some years.

Am I right in thinking that if TTG is dissolved, then the copyright on their products will revert to their owners?

No idea Greblord, since we never gave anyone other than Active Service Press the right to print or sell the rules in the first place, it kind of p****s me off that they've been selling the things for years.

If A publisher does not keep a publication in print then I believe it goes to the author.
I think you may find that if you gave permission to one company then could sell those rights on..

Sorry to resurrect this again, but I keep seeing sets of my rules for sale with various webstores. I assume they might be old stock, but I wonder if someone somewhere is still printing them?
With no response at all from anyone taking any responsibility for Tabletop Games in whatever incarnation they may be, the situation is in limbo really.
I've got new sets of rules coming out this year and the last thing I would want is for someone to be printing and profiting from spin-off sales without any reference to the author at all.

"printing" for TTG used to mean an old Adler typewriter and 30 mins on a semi-defunct copier.

They can knock em out to order dead easy, doesnt have to be old stock.

Why not update em and put them out properly produced as a new set/ed ? ITs your intellectual property, and that will soon get them out of the woodwork….

Sounds like you need to issue some "cease and desist" letters to the sellers.

I was under the impression TTG was split in two a number of years ago. The figures went to one company, the publications to another. Both have probably been sold and resold over the years.

It could well be that someone is printing these on demand and selling them in the belief they own the rights to do so

I think IP rights only revert to the author in the event of a companies demise if that was stated in the original contract, otherwise they just sit there in a legal no mans land. If there wasn't a written contract then the chances of proving a verbal contract are minimal.

If you have the contract (or other proof) then I think, as has been suggested, your only recourse against companies still printing and selling copies of your product is hiring a lawyer.

These guys seem to be selling old TTG rules, and there is a contact phone number listed.

link

"I think IP rights only revert to the author in the event of a companies demise if that was stated in the original contract, otherwise they just sit there in a legal no mans land. If there wasn't a written contract then the chances of proving a verbal contract are minimal."

As was stated above, the figures went one direction, but Bob Connor kept the print business when he sold up in Nottingham and went to live in semi-retirement near Scarborough.

He passed away there a couple of years later, and there were a couple of false starts by relatives (iirc) to keep the TTG presses rolling, but without alot of experience, skill or success Im pretty sure that the business as we knew it effectively died with Bob.

Whoever was your publisher, an author retain IP rights for ever. You can grant publication rights for a fee, and as long as that publication remains in print.

It looks a s muggle, but I would think that unless you have a contract with a living corporate entity – and no-one is claiming to own/be TTG, you have evidence to show you have tried to find out if anyone is, and the company seems to have gone bust, – then the odds are that copyright resides with the author again. In fact others may be in breach of copyright if they continue to run off sets of your IP every now and again for pecuniary return!…..

Of course, a shop may simply state that it is old stock they are clearing out……

Just a thought. and I hope it works out for you with this situation. Its far too common an occurrence I fear.

Hi,
I am the author of the old Tercio rules. 15mm have confirmed that they do not have any copies left for sale. The copyright declaration in the rules cover is with myself not TTG. I too have had no royalties since Bob passed away despite letters to Dave Polhill. So as I see it I can look for another publisher and bring out a new addition.

regards
Pete

Pete – I used to play Tercio all the time in the 1980s, great set of rules T1M1 and all that.
If you were to update them to full figure or base casualties (more modern really) they would certainly be a hit. Not sure how big Renaissance wargaming is these days.
PM me if you are interested in looking for some help with the updating.

Cheers

Jon

Hi Pete, I remember Tercio well – you introduced me to them down at the Queens Walk Community Centre club venue in the Meadows donkey's years ago.

It would be nice to see these rules updated, simplified a bit for my poor aging brain and relaunched.

All the best,

Geoff

A brief history

Tabletop Games was founded by Bob Conner in the 1970's. He started tabletop games because he
thought figures were too expensive and not enough inovative rules were seeing the light of day. Without him the late Ian beck might never have published his distinctive rules. It was Bob who published Rudis, Pony Wars and Once Upon a Time in the West and Shock of Impact all utilising the distinctive artwork of JD Spencer. He also issued the series of complete
tabletop games of the micro series. In additiona Bob published Halifax Wargame Group members well known rules Retinue – Medieval skirmish, Action Under sail – Napoleonic, and Armada. Add to this his sometime Quixotic habit of attending small local conventions with his stand and a valiant attempt to stock everything a wargamer might need and there you are. Bob Conner passed away in 2003.

Tabletop Games games published a number of micro-games and miniature rulesets in the late 1970's thru 2003~. They are higly compact, require only a small playing area but still retain the qualities of a more conventional minatures-based game. The company co-published a number of these game via Heritage Models, Inc. and the cover art and the layout of some of these games varies between the Tabltop Games version vs. the Heritage Models versions.

The company was sold June 14 2004 following the death of company principal Bob Conner to new owners. Dave Polhill was named the Managing Director of the new company. At this time they lost track of most of the authors of these games. The company went out of business sometime in 2008. The company established a web presense in 2003 which survived to the end in 2008. The website is no longer active.

In 2004 the company was split into two entities one for the miniature lines and the second Tabletop Games Ltd was utlized for the wargame division.

Tabletop Games Ltd. was formed in mid-2004 when they bought the very well stablished "Tabletop Games" brand. The business retained their large back catalogue of publications, and historical figure ranges and has recently added many more new products. Tabletop Games Ltd. also launched a distribution service in 2004 and began wholesaling wargames products to retailers (online and bricks & mortar) around the UK and Europe.

Tabletop Games Ltd. represents many of their ranges at shows around the UK.

In December 2005 the company Gamers Quest had found that the business, which had grown steadily over two years of trading, had outgrown their premises and their free time which was under pressure from work and family commitments. Jean Rolfe, a partner in Gamers Quest continued to work for the business on a part-time basis and Darren Rolfe retired.

Jean & Darren both felt that the business should continue to develop as part of a larger organisation and, for them, Tabletop Games Ltd. was the logical choice as they had known Dave Polhill, the Managing Director, for several years.

During the first week of January 2006, Tabletop Games Ltd. moved into much larger warehouse premises in order to hold the stock of both companies. A much wider choice of products are now available as all of the Gamers Quest products are added to their catalogue. The influx of these extra products has unfortunately caused further delays to their already very overdue ecommerce website (www.tabletopgames.com) which will hopefully now be available from February 2006.

The miniature line has been acquired by 15mm.co.uk.

I looked at 15mm.co.uk but found no Table Top ancient miniatures, just the fantasy.

Any one know if the TTG historical figures are available?

Aren't they part of the Isarus range ?

link

Can someone help me to contact Mr. Jon Jon Sutherland?

Thank you

Paskal

Long live and congratulations to Mr.Dave Polhill !!!