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"Whatever happened to the Sacred Band?" Topic


22 Posts

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1,621 hits since 20 Mar 2010
©1994-2026 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

raducci20 Mar 2010 3:09 a.m. PST

No, not the Grateful Dead but the elite Carthaginian force mentioned (invented?) by Greek historians?

Is there any confirmation of their existence outside Greek sources?
Why do they disapear after Agathocles trounces them?

I can't find any hint of their existence in Roman sources but I'm ready to be corrected.

Personal logo BigRedBat Sponsoring Member of TMP20 Mar 2010 3:46 a.m. PST

As far as I can recall, Carthage shifted to using mercenaries and subjects, and only very rarely used citizens in any numbers (and then only in defensive battles in Africa).

Cheers, Simon

General Montcalm20 Mar 2010 5:04 a.m. PST

Didnt they also put in an appearance in Sicily in 344 BC and got wiped out to a man by Timoleon at Crimisus in 339 BC ? After which they dissappeared, Carthaginian "hoplite" classes taking the view it was just too risky playing soldier? After which Carthaginians proper only showed up as officers and cavalry, and of course, their sea forces.

It would be great if any descriptions of what troops they fielded agaisnt teh mercenary and Libyan revolt after the Punic War existed. I wonder if the Sacred Band would have made a reappearance?

olicana20 Mar 2010 5:25 a.m. PST

I read about these guys just yesterday. They may well have become a ceremonial guard of wealthy young aristos – they were probably just for show; only assembling for parades, festivals, etc.

Klebert L Hall20 Mar 2010 6:01 a.m. PST

I think they've probably all died, by now.
-Kle.

Dr Mathias Fezian20 Mar 2010 6:49 a.m. PST

Didn't the Thebans have a Sacred Band as well?

Stosstruppen20 Mar 2010 8:27 a.m. PST

The Theban Sacred Band was destroyed at Chaeronea by Phillip/Alexander.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Supporting Member of TMP20 Mar 2010 8:44 a.m. PST

They had a hit song titled, "The Night They Drove Old Carthage Down".

Rudysnelson20 Mar 2010 8:51 a.m. PST

I too think of the Theban version first when I hear that term.

StarfuryXL520 Mar 2010 9:20 a.m. PST

So were the Carthaginians infringing on Thebe's IP, then?

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP20 Mar 2010 10:24 a.m. PST

They broke up and tried to pursue solo careers. As often happens, it didn't work out.

aecurtis Fezian20 Mar 2010 11:50 a.m. PST

"Didnt they also put in an appearance in Sicily in 344 BC and got wiped out to a man by Timoleon at Crimisus in 339 BC ?"

Yes.

"At any rate, it is said that among ten thousand dead bodies, three thousand were those of Carthaginians — a great affliction for the city. For no others were superior to these in birth or wealth or reputation, nor is it recorded that so many native Carthaginians ever perished in a single battle before, but they used Libyans for the most part and Iberians and Numidians for their battles, and thus sustained their defeats at the cost of other nations." Plutarch, "Life of Timoleon", 28.10-11.

"In the end, even the Carthaginians who composed the Sacred Battalion, twenty-five hundred in number and drawn from the ranks of those citizens who were distinguished for valour and reputation as well as for wealth, were all cut down after a gallant struggle. In the other elements of their army, more than ten thousand soldiers were killed and no less than fifteen thousand were taken captive." Diodorus Siculus, "Library of History", XVI.80.4-5.

The next mention of citizen troops (not specified as the Sacred Band, is again in Sicily, at the Himeras, in 311, against Agathocles:

"In Sicily, where Agathocles was constantly increasing in power and collecting stronger forces, the Carthaginians, since they heard that the dynast was organizing the cities of the island for his own ends and that with his armed forces he surpassed their own soldiers, decided to wage the war with more energy. Accordingly they at once made ready one hundred and thirty triremes, chose as general Hamilcar, one of their most distinguished men, gave him two thousand citizen soldiers among whom were many of the nobles, ten thousand men from Libya, a thousand mercenaries and two hundred zeugippae from Etruria, a thousand Balearic slingers, and also a large sum of money and the proper provision of missiles, food, and the other things necessary for war." Diodorus Siculus, "Library of History", XIX.106.1-2.

Agathocles then went to Africa and put the kibosh on them:

"But to resume, the generals of the Carthaginians, seeing that the situation was not at all consistent with delay, did not await soldiers from the country and from the allied cities; but they led the citizen soldiers themselves into the field, in number not less than forty thousand foot-soldiers, one thousand horsemen, and two thousand chariots. Occupying a slight elevation not far from the enemy, they drew up their army for battle. Hanno had command of the right wing, those enrolled in the Sacred Band fighting beside him; and Bomilcar, commanding the left, made his phalanx deep since the terrain prevented him from extending it on a broader front. The chariots and the cavalry they stationed in front of the phalanx, having determined to strike with these first and test the temper of the Greeks." Diodorus Siculus, "Library of History", XX.10.5-6.

Apart from a possible mention of a citizen cavalry unit also called the "Sacred Band" (no, it's not just loonies on the Interwebs), that's the last reference. And that's why you don't find mention in Roman sources; this is all still too early for Rome too take much interest. They were too busy fighting Samnites, fornicating with badgers, and other primitive rituals.

The citizen infantry who turned out against Regulus in the First Punic War, for the Truceless (Mercenary) War, and finally in the last battles in the Third Punic War, all seem to be of the lighter variety.

Could the citizens at Bagradas in the Truceless War have been armored? Perhaps:

"The Carthaginians, in consequence, seeing that he was mismanaging matters, again appointed Hamilcar Barca to the command and dispatched him to the war on hand, giving him seventy elephants, all the additional mercenaries they had been able to collect, and the deserters from the enemy, besides their burgher forces, horse and foot, so that in all he had about ten thousand men."

"Hamilcar was advancing in the following order. In front were the elephants, after them the cavalry and light-armed troops and last of all the heavy-armed." Polybius, "Histories", I.75.1-2, I.76.3.

Possible, but nothing certain.

Allen

raducci20 Mar 2010 5:57 p.m. PST

I notice, Allen, you never quote from Carthaginian histories.
Bias??

Personal logo enfant perdus Supporting Member of TMP20 Mar 2010 6:30 p.m. PST

Interesting. I always thought they broke up due to the malign influence of Yokous Onopolis.

aecurtis Fezian20 Mar 2010 6:36 p.m. PST

"I notice, Allen, you never quote from Carthaginian histories.
Bias??"

Nope. Find me one. I'll quote from it.

link

Allen

raducci21 Mar 2010 2:04 a.m. PST

There you go. Allen.
There is more extant material than I thought.
Thanks for the Paper.

CooperSteveOnTheLaptop21 Mar 2010 3:11 p.m. PST

"fornicating with badgers"

Never done this, but the one we drove over last weekend was certainly thoroughly ****ed.

Poor little brute. But it did insist on jumping off the kerb under our wheels.

aecurtis Fezian21 Mar 2010 7:02 p.m. PST

And I thought no-one would notice…

Major William Martin RM27 Mar 2010 5:54 a.m. PST

I've heard that, to coincide with the release of their VH1 Classic "Behind The Sacred Band" special, they will soon be embarking on a reunion tour with Kiss. Coming soon to a venue near you!

Bill wink

JJartist27 Mar 2010 11:13 a.m. PST

Carthaginian sources…. mild laughter… amongst the salt..

Porkmann27 Mar 2010 12:53 p.m. PST

They went to Hollywood -dawg.

McWong7328 Mar 2010 11:13 p.m. PST

Always wondered Allen if Utica would of been a source for surviving Punic litreture, but I'm not really familiar with how culturally similar Utica was to Carthage.

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