"Is that really GREAT service?" Topic

I am suprised by the amount of unremarkable transactions labelled as good trader praise on TMP.

I see a lot of "I ordered stuff and a few days later I got them" posts, why do people think that getting what you paid for in a timely fashion warrants praise?
There are even posts labelled as great service for when retailers make mistakes and put it right, how is making a mistake in the first place great, surely even putting it right only brings it back up to acceptable?

What are your thoughts, do you expect internet purchases to be worse than regular shop purchases and are thus surprised when someone does it right?
Are there that many cowboy outfits out there?

As a retail miniatures internet customer I have only ever had bad to acceptable experiences as a customer.

Incoming!!!

In the last week I have had orders serviced in a timely manner by Spirit Games, Front Rank and Tony Barr at ERM. I certainly wouldn't start a thread thanking any of them in case it made them big-headed.

thanks guys :)

I would just love to post crappy customer posts just once in my life and actually name names. Mayby just before I retire?
Russ Dunaway

Sometimes as I read those posts it seems more like people are excited to share their new toys. They often mention what great service they received and then proceed to list all of the things they ordered from them. Maybe instead of using the title great customer service they could title it "my new toys"

Nothing wrong with being excited about their new toys, I even enjoy reading about what other people are buying, but it might just be a better thread title.

Having worked in retail for over 30 years,
I think that good service deserves a shout out.
Overall I think that people only want to talk about the
bad and never the good.
If a company communicates well, sends me my items in
a reasonable amount of time and the quaility is what I
expect than I'm happy. Anything above is pure gravy
and certainly deserves an attaboy!
And in this hobby were so many suppliers are small and relatively unknown, a little positive feedback on a good
transaction helps reassure other potential buyers.

I remember a day of 4-6 weeks for delivery. I also work in technology so I understand that times have changed.

I am working with a vendor on an order right now, they got it yesterday, since then they have sent me 4 emails. 1 to indicate they have the order, 1 to indicate that they have payment, 1 to indicate that they have picked the order and 1 with a shipping number. All of this for a fairly small order IMO. When I recieve the product, which I expect will occur early next week, they will get praise by name on TMP.

I am working with another vendor that has put together special packaging for me so that I don't wind up with a bunch of throw away officers. He is providing and unsolicited discount due to the orders size and he has indicated that he will throw in a few extra pieces when it ships. He has talked to me by phone and by email, first rate communciation IMO. He is casting the product now. Again, this really isn't a large order for me. I will offer praise on TMP when I recieve the order for all the extra effort.

In the past I have worked with a vendor overseas and I am constantly surprised at how quickly the order arrives and delighted as the postage is free. That is a very big deal from the UK to the USA. Oh and they went through a phase where they were having some troubles and sent a few incorrect orders. They made every mistake right with absolutely no quibbling. I have praised them often and have never mentioned that they made some mistakes. Mistakes happen, folks providing good service just take care of them.

I have worked with lots of vendors and find most (99.9%) are exceptional in the service department when I compare them to say McDonalds or Sears. I believe they deserve my continued business and they deserve some positive promotion for the efforts they take to get their products to me.

I suspect I'm old fashioned but I also say "Thank you" sincerely when a waiter or waitress brings me my order. I look them in the eye and let them know I'm appreciative of the job they are performing for me. I also tip well for what I suspect most folks would consider an unremarkable transaction.

Most of these folks in our hobby are doing this part time. Most of the folks in our hobby are deserving of praise for the efforts they go through to provide us service. Sure I'm only paying for the product, and the service doesn't cost me anything. In almost every case, when I think about it, the service I recieve in this hobby has been excellent. Excellent, great or good service takes time and I appreciate the time spent to do a little extra. I say thank you to these folks and I mean it. I also want to let my fellow enthusiasts know that the vendors I praise in public, or thank in public can be counted on.

I think it's called being grateful for someones effort to please you, that and good manners. Both are lacking in so many folks these days.

regards
Donald~

As a retail miniatures internet customer I have only ever had bad to acceptable experiences as a customer.

sucks to be you then dude.

Het: if somebody posts something positive about your painting do you tell them to sthu it was "just acceptable and nothing more"?

'course you do, otherwise it would be double standards.

Thank you for that eloquent and insightful response.

Maybe my standards are higher than others, which is what I am trying to ascertain by asking what people expect from an internet transaction.

I expect GREAT service to be more than simply getting what I paid for when I expected it.

What do you expect GREAT service to look like?

I gave you examples of what I consider to be great, or praise worthy, service.

Only you know what you consider praise worthy service to be.

Thank you Donald, my comment was aimed at Reader Name 001.
Your examples do indeed warrant a note of praise or two, as does your thought out and pleasant post.

Michael.

Angel Barracks,
"As a retail miniatures internet customer I have only ever had bad to acceptable experiences as a customer."

I think that you must have very high standards.
Because I would have to say that I have rarely
ever had a bad experience and that most are better
than just acceptable.

Mike

How a business handles its errors is actually very important to me as a customer. Lets face it, mistakes happen, to all of us, I like to know that if one pops up I am not going to get burned. It might not be great service, but IMO it is certainly worth mentioning.

I grew up in the '70s and '80s, when anything by mail came 4-6 weeks after the order was placed. Double that for overseas. If I get something in less than a month, I look like an over-excited chihuahua running around circles.

My first internet ordering experiences were with FASA, GW, and New Wave. So if my order arrives complete (or with a notation for backorder) and with the stuff i actually ordered, I look like an over-excited chihuahua running around circles.

If an online retailer e-mails me to let me know the order has shipped, or, especially, responds to my e-mails when I ask a question, that is more great customer service. At my local game stores I sometimes have to leave without purchasing because the sales help is too busy doing something more important than taking my money or answering my questions.

So I guess what is only average service for you is great service for me. If I like the company I order from and think they have a great product, I like to give a shout-out so people on the fence know it is a good deal. For whatever reason I have always been leary of ordering from companies in the UK (I am in the US) but because of the very positive "Great Service From…" topics here at TMP I have been able to place those orders and in fact my life is beter for it.

I should also point out that we have a very small community. The same names pop up across countless forums and message boards, so its hard not to let a little of the good will you might feel towards a favored few slip into your praise of their business practices.

This also works in reverse. I'm unlikely to ever be one of your customers, simply because I am one of those gamers that enjoys the preparation sometimes more than the game, so this isn't a jab at you….but there are a few people who are so obnoxious at times that I can't even imagine ordering from them (on other boards of course…lol).

I like to announce when I am pleased by those who DO try to provide good service and prompt shipping. As some have already said, many part-time businesses would appreciate a few accolades once in a while, I think. And the bigger outfits don't mind it either. So what if some get a 'big head' or puff up their chest a little? They deserve to be proud of what they do, doesn't everyone?

I learned to manage with a simple rule: Praise in public, counsel in private. Everyone likes to see their name in print with good things. It inspires them to either continue or even improve more. Gratitude is an easy enough thing to express and doing it publicly is free advertisement for your chosen vendor. It's when companies don't get any press people forget and move on to the new and shiney. I would like all of these businesses to do well so I let everyone here know that I am doing business with them and have trusted them with my hard earned cash.

end of line.

I'll never forget when I switched from waiting several weeks for my Minifigs from Modelers Mart in Florida to what seemed like hours for my Essex from Wargames in West Virginia.

I do see your point though AB. I'm happy to get those compliments. Not because putting two of this and one of that in the post in a timely manner is "great service." I hope when people think of good service from me it is more than that – advising on the right products, rules or paints. Trying to make sure they will like what they buy (because I take returns), building a custom army.

I appreciate the comments mainly because it gives others confidence. I mess up just like the next guy and do my best to make it up. Treat customers like I'd like to be treated.

But yes, some times I feel like I'm getting the post office's credit.

Regards,

Mark Severin
Scale Creep Miniatures

I have always had super awesome service from Old Glory and Conquest. Warstore has been good. I don't know of any company that I have every had a need to bash. I work in transportation and we rarely ever hear about good stuff. Everyone wants their stuff yesterday, especially when it hasn't shipped yet…

Mark are you sure that it is not UPS's credit.Good luck with the post awful.Rob

Well really UPS is trying to make your business easier to let you do more so you'll ship more so you'll use them more. They don't mind, they advertise it.

"There are even posts labelled as great service for when retailers make mistakes and put it right, how is making a mistake in the first place great, surely even putting it right only brings it back up to acceptable?"

A mistake is a mistake, but owning it and making it right, or going the extra mile can make it a better or "great"
experience. And having or keeping the goodwill of customers is key. I weigh the positive and negative feedback and reviews very highly when deciding to make new purchases. And one persons expectations or their judgments about what is remarkable is in the eye of the beholder!

And I buy much on the internet now and have had the range of experience but mostly acceptable to above expectations. I also have to say I am learning to judge my judgments and have more grace and mercy when people do not meet my expecations or make mistakes. Two recent transactions on ebay where I received broken items and both sellers gave refunds or partial refunds based only on my word (of course I could leave negative feedback)led to a positive experience. (this can lead to a whole other topic of rights and expectaions on insurance etc… that have been covered before). Bottom line is I left positive feedback and would purchase from them again.

I see you point, AB, but to be honest I like hearing from people when they have had quick and reliable service from dealers, since I may well consider ordering from those dealers in the future. Whether quick and reliable and friendly service warrants the term "great" or not, having the information is useful so I'm not inclined to quibble over the adjective.

I'm with mweaver, Angel Barracks. I see your point but I'm happy the posts you refer to exist. Recently I discovered some figures I could use online but whose manufacturers I didn't know at all. I came here to TMP, did a search of the Consumer Affairs board, found nothing but positive comments on the manufacturers, then felt confident enough to go ahead and place my orders. Though those earlier positive transactions may not have been exceptional, I'm very glad the TMP users involved took the time to post their comments.

AngelBarracks I posted today about a brand new company Hinterlands since I ordered at 9pm and had it two days later. I figured being a new company people might be curious about there service.

I have been ordering products from all over the world since I was a child, in the early 1960's, and I have never had a package lost, or stolen. I have ordered thousands of items from behind the Iron Curtian, from Asia, Europe and even Africa. The US Post Office has done a great job for me, as have Fed Ex and UPS.

I have only had two companies rip me off, one in Germany and one in the US. In the long term, they were the real losers as the lost thousands of dollars in business from me.

Always Model, Fidelis Models, Walthers, Squadron Shop, Toy Soldier HQ, and many others send me what I want, how I want it shipped and fix any problems. Their prices are reasonable, their sales are good. I could add many others to this list.

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

May I say I have no problems with people saying they had reliable service, none at all.

It is just the use of words like AWESOME, GREAT, SUPER that when I see them I expect something, well something awesome or great.

A lot of GREAT service posts refer to the quality of the product.
That is not good service, that is a good product.

GREAT service is going that extra mile for a customer.

Back when The Hobbybox was running, I posted on here asking if anyone in the UK stocked produxt XYZ from the US. Iain sourced it, stocked it, and contacted me to let me know that he had it on the website.

Wendy from West Wind has been great when I've dropped her e-mails asking things like "You sell this bloke on a bicycle…"

Certain international sellers – and I won't name names here – understand customs charges and are accommodating in splitting orders and, uh, other helpful practices.

Anyone in the States who manages to turn my order around and gets stuff across the Pond within a week – Ed from Two Hour Wargames, Lon from Brigade Games. Maxmini in Poland are good this way too.

Doug from EM-4 and Jon from GZG seem to be able to turn orders around and have them on my doorstep in a day or two consistently – in a couple of instances, I've ordered stuff at dinnertime and it's arrived next morning.

Mix-ups happen, and a GREAT company will sort it out without fuss or hassle. Compared to your average High Street shop or superstore, most minis companies are fantastic in this department.

But like others have said here, it's always nice to hear that a company will get your stuff to you in a timely fashion and fix mistakes, or that a product exceeds expectations. I think it all falls under the heading of "Buy with confidence from these guys".

Yep… compared to my dealings with many larger non-gaming companies the service I've had from GZG, Brookhurst, The Warstore and even bad old Games Workshop has indeed been 'great'.

It is just the use of words like AWESOME, GREAT, SUPER that when I see them I expect something, well something awesome or great.

Could there also be a little bit of the cultural difference at play here? Mr angelbarracks seems to be from UK, while a lot of TMP posters are from the US.

My understanding is that the people in the US are likely to use stronger words of praise more liberally, compared to the UK.

Perhaps we should come up with a list of terms that we can all accept. How about, "I'm pretty happy with…".
I think all of us aware that Jon & Doug almost defy the laws of physics it is useful to hear about new or less well known suppliers who are satisfying customers as KnightTemplar mentioned.

Personally, I like to give praise. I gives me the perhaps unrealistic sense that others will read what I have to say and patronize the firms I like, thus keeping them in business. Purely silly I suppose, but it makes me feel good.

I wonder if the eBay experience trains people to comment on their purchases, often with strong adjectives.

What are your thoughts, do you expect internet purchases to be worse than regular shop purchases and are thus surprised when someone does it right?
Are there that many cowboy outfits out there?

Why shouldn't we say great job when someone does "what they're supposed to do?" Doesn't everyone like to feel appreciated?

Take some time to say "Thank you", "Great job" and "Keep up the good work". It's free and goes a long way.

Always Model, Fidelis Models, Walthers, Squadron Shop, Toy Soldier HQ, and many others send me what I want, how I want it shipped and fix any problems. Their prices are reasonable, their sales are good. I could add many others to this list.

I'd like to add two more – Scale Creep and Old Glory. They definitely earned my repeat business.

I'm constantly incredulous when I see claims of 'GREAT' service when mistakes are corrected.

Sorry, but that's just the minimum ADEQUATE service from a responsible and law-abiding company. Anything less would be a breach of the Sale of Goods Act here in the UK.

GREAT service would entail sorting out quality control and getting the bloody order right in the first place!

Just for AngelBarracks, when my order from Zombiesmith arrives, I will use a subject line of "I Got My Toys From Zombiesmith and Am Thrilled" or some such.

I am guessing that my back-to-back "Great Service" postings about Khurasan and 15mm.co.uk were the inspiration for *this* topic. If I offended anyone, I do apologize. But it is important to me to let the community know of what I think is *great* service. I could go on and on, but not tonite; I have a headache.

About the "Refugee" models… I was getting everything onto bases, and I was looking at the refugees, carrying everything they own and unsure of where they are going or what will happen to them. I felt really bad for them and their imaginary circumstances.

So I lined up my Felids to gun them down and put them out of their misery.

Well I've just received an order from angelbarracks that I placed a couple of days ago. It was a small, fiddly order that I almost didn't send as I suspected that the time and hassle in filling this order would be more than the order was worth for him. Emails from him were prompt and friendly, delivery was fast and a few extra items were added free of charge because "These things would be of interest to you I am sure." Michael from angelbarracks may consider this unremarkable behaviour but I certainly feel it's worth mentioning (even if his tactics are the same as a drug dealer giving you your first hit free…) and will be happily buying from him again in the future.

When people thank somebody for "great" service for having delivered the goods in a timely and responsive fashion, what they mean is they're happy that somebody is actually willing and able to provide decent service and quality in an industry nobody who was just out for profit would ever care to work in, given how ridiculously little money there is to be made in it.

Put another way, confusing standards is muddying the waters.

While amazon.com deserves zero thanks for just doing their job, hundreds of one-man bands deserve thanks for their will and ability to cope.

Good vendors deserve praise as well as negatives from poor ones. Thats how we the consumer can make good choices when we purchase. This area is a valuable tool that we all can benefit from as long as folks don't abuse their comments by misstating facts.
If all the companies out there had the service of Old Glory we would all be happy campers…(I don't work for Old Glory but have had many dealings with them)

Deciding if you've had great service or not is an individual thing. It is determined by you the individual each time you interact with a company or individual.

If I believe that getting my order to me in 2-3days is great service then I believe that. If I believe that correcting a mistake with no quibbling and making the order right is indicative of great service then I believe that. If I believe that great service is getting an unsolicited discount and/or a few extras then I believe that. If I believe that puttng together custom packaging is great service then I believe that.

If I decide to report it as great service on TMP then that really is my perogative. If you disagree then that is your perogative.

I have had what I consider consistent great service from: All The Kings Men, The Assault Group, Copplestone Castings, GFI/Minifigs, On Military Matters, Eureka Miniatures, Dayton Painting Consortium, Wargames Factory, Tumbling Dice, Brookhurst, Scale Creep, The Warstore, Irregular Miniatures and Spencer Smith Miniatures.

Thank you to these fine folks for the truly great service they provide. I highly recommend each of them to anyone interested in doing business with them.

regards
Donald~

Great service to me is getting me the package in 7 days or less, 100% fill rate, well packaged all done consistently. Such as; Perry Miniatures, Warlord Games, The Warstore, Rebel Miniatures, Dayton Painting Consortium, Brigade Games and Old Glory.

AngelBarracks's post makes me oh so glad I don't work in retail.

It's so easy to be glumly negative. Between this topic and one last month on someone having a hissy fit over a retailer who was in hospital who did not reply, I am, I say again, oh so glad I don't have to kowtow to such people.

The retailers out there have my respect and pity.
--
Tim

GREAT is defined as considerably above average.
If getting orders on time is what people think is GREAT, then what is average, getting orders sent with bits missing, not getting them, getting other people orders?
If this standard is average how is the industry surviving at all?

AVERAGE is defined a usual or ordinary amount, most of the GREAT posts describe what is average.
This is the point behind my post.

Or… if the majority of retailers on here do go above and beyond with every order then they are again not GREAT as they are just average if that is what the majority do.

I think that calling regular transactions GREAT/AWESOME undermines those that really do offer GREAT service.

There is enough unjustified criticism going around these days that the occasional pat on the back for a job well done doesn't do any harm.

I get 'great' service from Caliver, every time I order they deliver promptly without any problems or screw ups. As they are a retailer am not going to say 'great sculpts', the delivery is really down to the post office or whatever service they use so 'at best' it arrives 'on time', and 'at best' they give me everything I order, so on that basis you would never here about them except when they screw up and someone leaps on to TMP to make a big song and dance about it.

But I think they deserve a pat on the back for that, a sort of 'keep up the good work guys' praise so how to do that.

Its just like tipping in a restaurant when the service is as expected.

Maybe it would be more accurate if people said a job well done rather than 'great', but I wont lose any sleep over it.

Although I do sort of agree AB about praise for a company when they screw up, it does some time make me wonder how much sand do some people need kicking in their face before they get upset. If they own up and put things right IMHO that just means they didn't dig themselves into a deeper hole.

At the same time though there are screw ups and screw ups, with any business doing a reasonable volume of business there are going to be screw ups, we are all human after all, so it doesn't mean that they are a bad company its just life. On the other hand there are situations where it goes beyond simple random bad luck then the criticism is deserved whether they put it right or not.

So I guess you believe and hold to the bell curve even in grading ab? It suggests that no matter how well everyone in the class does the bottom 3-6% will be failed because the bell curve can't be wrong. If everyone scores above 90% then the lowest scores are all failed regardless of any other factors.

I disagree.

Addtionally I don't just compare my shopping and service results in this hobby against just other vendors in this hobby. I compare them against all other venbdors that I deal with. Sadly for those other vendors the folks in this hobby do provide typically excellent service, so my expectations are perhaps unrealistic when dealing with Amazon or BBC America for example.

When I compare the folks in this industry to the norm in all industries, 2 weeks delivery, no special packaging as a rule, or we made a mistake you are now on the phone at least 2-3 times to straighten it out. I'm ok stating that I am recieving excellent service from the vendors I posted even if it is their norm. They are providing consistently good to excellent service compared to all mail order companies I deal with.

As I stated earlier, great service is in the eye of the recipient, as is average or bad. It is subjective not objective.

regards
Donald~

Q: "I see a lot of "I ordered stuff and a few days later I got them" posts, why do people think that getting what you paid for in a timely fashion warrants praise?"

My thoughts:

I agree. I've been guilty of that in the past. However, unless the order was out of the norm (extremely complicated/customized), and they filled it with no errors at all, and precisely as per the specific instructions, I don't think it would warrant a thread all its own. Instead, I think that a quick email to the seller might suffice to express gratitude.
But if the business is one that is not often mentioned, and they have products that others could benefit from, I think a thread is more than fair.

Q: "There are even posts labeled as great service for when retailers make mistakes and put it right, how is making a mistake in the first place great, surely even putting it right only brings it back up to acceptable?"

Everyone makes mistakes, at one time or another, even with the most customer-oriented sellers. What they make of those mistakes is what separates bad customer service from good or even great CS.

You'd be surprised how often I've gotten a lukewarm reception when I've pointed out errors in some orders. A couple of sellers sounded insulted and even implied that I was lying about the inaccuracy of the order or the quality of the product.

Again, I think it's at the discretion of the customer to decide how to express appreciation to those who make things right.

Dan