"Why only battles..?" Topic

I was showing my Girlfriend the progress of my latest big of scenery last night – a farm house, small barn and rock wall fence, with a 28mm WW2 British Para amongst it to show the scale.

After getting the (limited) praise I had been fishing for, I was asked the question "Why only battles? Why is it always soldiers and never ordinary people?" (i.e. games not involving war, shooting, fighting etc.)

After thinking quickly on my feet I replied that farmer figures in 28mm are hard to come by, and if you could get them I didn't think many people would play such games.

I then gave an example of such a game: The game starts when the farmer wakes up. Roll to move the farmer to the cow sheds. Once he gets there, roll to see if the cow is co-operating. Oops, I rolled a 1. The cow wont let the farmer milk her. After more dice rolling the cow behaves. Now it is time to feed the pigs… oh oh – someone left the gate open. Roll to catch the pigs and put them back into the pen.

By this stage we were both laughing very hard, and my girlfriend said she like the idea and would play such a game.

Now all She has to do is buy all the figures needed, and paint them. Once that is done we "could" play such a game…

The boardgame Agricola might be a good starting point. Once she's into the idea, you could introduce little extras like a bunch of Panzer IVs rolling onto the field and a mortar team setting up in the pigsty.

The 'war' part of wargaming might be a clue.

I then gave an example of such a game: The game starts when the farmer wakes up. Roll to move the farmer to the cow sheds. Once he gets there, roll to see if the cow is co-operating. Oops, I rolled a 1. The cow wont let the farmer milk her. After more dice rolling the cow behaves. Now it is time to feed the pigs… oh oh – someone left the gate open. Roll to catch the pigs and put them back into the pen.

Reads like an RPG. Introduce her to the delights of Call of Cthulhu (my favourite RPG ever, and I don't like RPGs), or Paranoia (see previous parentheses). Both can have great comedy value :)

It's called MODEL RAILROADING zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

You can game without fighting, though if it is an option most games will head that direction quickly.

- Scavenger hunt style games (these usually devolve into fighting over the rare items)

- Collection/Raids, in which the sides are attempting to carry off the most of X (tend to devolve when side A gets behind or tries to limit side B's movements)

Now the only reason I mention this is that these game set-ups are ideal for drawing in your girlfriend. Set up one of these style games and let her make the first aggressive move towards battle…its all downhill (or up the hill to capture it) from there.

Would "Wagers of Sin" (Eureka Miniatures- urchins racing velociraptors!) be classified as a non-battle wargame?

IIRC there was a sheep herding game (along the lines of "One Man and His Dog" in Wargames Illustrated many years ago. :)

I have a farm diorama with a nice collection of Dark Age animals and villagers. I tried coming up with game rules for farming miniatures, but it was just too boring. Battles are action-packed!

link

Of course you could go for the "farmer's daughter" scenario which was reprinted in Osprey special "Penthouse campaigns"

There is Farmville on Facebook. It appears everyone, especially female everyone, is playing it. (I am not).

It's called MODEL RAILROADING zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Yeah. What a bunch of geeks!

Go play "Simwhathaveyou" already, this is a WARGAME forum….

Actually, while still battles of a sort, I know of at least two convention games that don't involve people dying, "Amish Rake Fight", and an ACE Snowball Fight Game. Also, what about the Paintball Minis that Ebob does?

You forgot about the random events,like slipping in the manure.While mucking the stalls,your shovel breaks when you roll a one.

"Of course you could go for the "farmer's daughter" scenario which was reprinted in Osprey special "Penthouse campaigns"

And don't forget the "Don't make eye contact with the lonely five legged stud horse" scenario. Better hope for good die rolls on that one!

The critical aspect is that the miniature has to occupy space in terrain and that space has to matter. Like of sight, range, cover, and terrain all matter in a wargame.

When doing other types of games with miniatures, the trick is to find ways that make the miniatures (including their appearance) matter.

So yes, you can chase down sheep etc but you don't need miniatures to roll to see if you can milk the cow. Whatever you try to model has to require models in a space.

I have a cattle rustling game that a fair percentage of wargamers don't like -- it's not a 'war' game. What's the fun of chasing after cows?

mjc

I'm trying to work in mechanics for a pulp gang warfare game where you can persuade opposing gang members to surrender, join your gang, or otherwise do your bidding. I'm meeting quite a bit of resistance because somehow losing a model from a single die roll that makes them surrender or change sides is somehow entirely unacceptable but having them shot in the head and killed by a single die roll is completely reasonable.

Similarly, many gamers hate morale rules because they don't feel satisfied if their models don't wait around to be murdered. If morale does break, they want the figure removed from the tabletop. If a figure is still on the table then it ought to be fighting.

Farms are not the peaceful manure filled Utopias your girlfriend thinks they are Shelldrake! Just look what happened in Animal Farm by George Orwell, now that you could game!

Isnt that what the "Amish Rake Fight" game at Cold Wars a few years back was all about?

David Manley-

"IIRC there was a sheep herding game (along the lines of "One Man and His Dog" in Wargames Illustrated many years ago. :)"

First thing that came to my mind too. Wish I'd kept that issue….

Duck

I seem to remember a game about harpooning whales in 19th century style, and there was definitely a game about Napoleonic officers going fox-hunting – I wrote one about an Indian tiger hunt, although I think tigers are beautiful animals and would never have wanted to kill one myself.
Perhaps the hunting themes might be politically incorrect these days, however.
Personally, I think computer games like Grand Theft Auto which encourage youngsters to engage in virtual criminal activities are far more morally reprehensible than wargames, but I'm just an old fogey who can remember an era when one could celebrate Wolfe, Wellington and Wavell without being an object of suspicion by the thought police…

I recall a tiny old board game called Sticks and Stones, about cavemen. There was a mammoth hunt scenario, where dice controlled the mammoths. The hunters could be led by one player or more. It was good for laughs. The first hunt was always a disaster, lots of stomped cavemen. After that the hunters would be much more careful.

Find a copy, paint up some cavemen and mammoths…

Ah yes, the WI 'One Man and His Dice' game was awesome! :o)

You can get civvie miniatures from the model RR ranges pretty easily.
-Kle.

I think Connard Sage nailed it: Go with an RPG. I've been delving into the world of RPGs as part of some rules research I'm doing, and there's an amazing amount of stuff out there. If you want the "story" behind the combat -- even without the combat -- there's a lot there to be had.

There are some "war" game rules with RPG elements. Two Hour Wargames' 6 Gun Sound has a lot of background built in. Some of the stone age games are all about food gathering and finding shelter, with very little humanoid-on-humanoid combat.

- Bob

The sheep game is in WI #27, November 1989, if anyone wants to go looking for back issues. Wonder what it would take to get permission to post it?

Perhaps the hunting themes might be politically incorrect these days, …

Oh! the irony of that observation. And WARgaming is somehow socially/politically acceptable!…

Personally, I don't have a problem with games that portray historical activities that were once socially/politically acceptable, but are no longer – gladiators, duelling, hunting &c. The beauty of a game is that one take participate, in a very stylised form, in something one could not do/would not want to do in real life. No human beings or furry animals are hurt; if anyone finds such games offensive, they are neither compelled to participate nor even to watch.
As HG Wells suggested, if only our statesmen and generals could play little wars instead of real wars the world would be a far better place.

I once had a plan of setting up a game based in a Zoo – inspired by the Zoo Tycoon series of computer games. Never materialized, though.