"Mill Springs Project for Havoc" Topic

This year for my Havoc project I'm doing 1 Battle 3 Systems.

HAVOC March 26-28 (15 days left…)

havoc.battlegroupboston.org

The battle of choice is the ACW Battle of Mill Springs (aka Logan's Crossroads, Fishing Creek). I'm
going to run it 3 times using 3 different rule sets; Carnage & Glory (ACW), Johnny Reb 2 and They Couldn't Hit An Elephant.

The choice of the rules was to show three very different systems, with different strengths as rule sets.

C&G Computer moderated, very good at tracking details, one of the hardest in any rule set is fatigue, so often in this system battles peter out.

Johnny Reb 2 Complex, chart intensive, uses order chips, and interaction between chips, phased resolution. The rule set we all love to hate. It's a fight playing it, but and the end of the day, you feel as if you fought a ACW battle, with all the twists and turns. (IMHO the standard that all others are measured).

They Couldn't Hit An Elephant Card driven, a standard Too Fat Lardy leadership model, where leaders make things happen. Also a built in hidden movement system.

I had planned on doing a big ACW game, but the figures I needed where not done, so I looked towards a smaller battle. I had bought the Guns of Gettysburg scenario book "Heartland" and read the "Logan's Crossroads" scenario. It looked interesting, so I did some research on the web and found it was really well documented. Its roughly a meeting engagement, with the Rebs trying to overrun a Union Camp, and ending up stirring the hornet's nest, and end up fighting the army.

The common maps found on the web show the actual battle took place in a very small space, at standard Johnny Reb 2 (40 yards) to the inch scale, this map is only 4 x 2.5 feet!

link

The main part of the battle took place on the hill and in the open field at the base of the hill (known as Burton's Hill).

So I did some posting to some lists and a guy on the JR3 list sent me a message about a very detailed book called: "MILL SPRINGS, CAMPAIGN AND BATTLE OF MILL SPRINGS" by Kenneth Hafendorfer. This is the most detailed book of a battle I have ever read, it goes into the details of of each regiment, and lots of letters and accounts. A great read if your interested in the battle. Also it breaks the battle down into to 20 minute periods. So you get a real sense of the flow.

BTW there is no way to accurately reproduce this battle. There are so many bad mistakes made by the inexperienced leaders, I doubt any set of players could make as many bad decisions. From a Union brigade commander, abandoning his post to tell is commander he is being attacked, to a Confederate brigade commander deploying 4 regiments (and big 700-800 man regiments) into line to drive off a 200 man picket (about 3 companies).

Anyhow, the battle takes place in the winter in the rain, so I decided to give the board a winter look. The first part was I was going to try my hand at making flexible roads. Using this method: link

Overall it was a success, the downside is I couldn't find brown paintable caulk locally. So I used a clay color, its fine, but when the road flexes it cracks the paint the the white jumps out. It turns out they are not hard to make, so I will make more later with some mail ordered caulk (I later found it on Amazon). This was the result of my roads:

link

Also I would need winter trees, and lots of them as most of the expanded table is woods. I ended up going on the web and finding some good deals on Woodland Scenics tree armatures, these I mounted and then spray painted and flocked. I painted them black first, then a gray primer over them, then I sorted out some trees and sprayed them white for the sycamores.

My Trees: link

My work table at this point: link

I had decided to make the table a little larger than the map, to allow some room for maneuver. So the new table is 4 x 6, I would put carved foam under painted felt to make the table. I had to do an entire base of pink foam to allow for negative terrain for all the gullies.

This is the final product of the carved pink foam: link

I then test fitted the roads to see how they looked: link

The next stage was painting the felt a base color and then masking out the clear areas, and painting in the woods.

Here is a shot with the base colors on, and some of the fields cut (they are made of corduroy fabric). Note the gullies are shaded in, and my paper masks being fitted for the next set of colors.

link

The woods are painted in, the fields are cut (They need to be trimmed), so nex I need to make fences for the fields:

link

Another view:

link

I then spent the weekend making good neighbors! Lots and lots of fencing.

link

link

I also test fitted the encampments and some of the buildings.

link

I put together 28 more trees so at the end of the day, I'll have over 120 trees on the table.

With the fences nearly done, I have to paint up my buildings.

Looking forward to seeing this game at the con, thanks for posting the WIP pictures, can't wait to see the final product……………

Great to see a project coming together like this. Thanks for posting and good luck with the finished game.

Same here- cant wait to see it at Havoc! I like the look of the gullies. very cool.

Wow – impressive achievement – thanks for posting, gives a good framework for a big project

Agree---very impressive!

I got my fences done, I'm going to say I did roughly 15 feet of them! The ones that conform to the hills being the biggest pain. This took a lot longer than I thought. Once the base layer is done, its pretty easy to do the rest. I must have used 600 toothpicks, cut in half and stained.

Painting the building I have on hand, waiting for some more from Wisconsin. These are really chrome, as I have the minimum of what I need, but if I want to put all the historic buildings on table (mostly on the edges of the battle field) I will need them.

Still on hold for bases from Renaissance Ink, Jay said he would mail them out on Monday. But I ordered them on Feb 24th. He hasn't responded to my email or phone calls since Cold Wars… I'm screwed if they don't show by Friday, as they are being delivered to my work. So if not here, then, I'll have to wait till Monday…

Steve the Dial-Dude stepped up and got my the TCHAE status dials out and in the mail yesterday. So they should be here soon. I bought the JR dials on a lark, and really liked them, they are pretty cool with state flags for every unit. Tennessee and Kentucky on both sides!

Still haven't flocked my extra trees, but I'll do that tonight, its a trivial task.

I have some bases on hand, I'm going to use them up, then we shall see.

Rules comment: One interesting difference between TCHAE and the other is the speed at which the off table, and table edge forces will arrive at the fight. Its really unpredictable, it all depends on blind cards being turned. While JR and C&G the troops will move at a very predicted pace, so I can try to figure out entry timing.

--Tom

Correction the address I give Jay was to my house not to my work, so I actually have 2 more chances; tonight (Friday) and tomorrow…

Update: Well the bases did not arrive… Needless to say I'm none too pleased. Steve from Dial-Dude offered to cut me some and get them to me by Tuesday, but I scrounged around in my basement and found I had secreted away a roll of 1 inch magnetic tape (and my wife says hoarding is a bad thing). :lol:

Thanks for the offer Steve! :D

Perfect for what needed, all I had to do was cut about 60 7/8th of an inch chunks… Not as bad as I thought it would be, the stuff scored and snapped cleanly.

So with required bases in hand, it was on to basing, and more basing, and still more basing… Rodders and I were at it for 2 days.

Also I got on to my building painting and finished all the building I had on hand, and the tents.

So finally we had everything based:

The Rebs picture

The Yanks picture

With the figures based, flocked and labeled (I'm going to relabel them, I don't like the standing label, I'm going to go to a flat trailing label). We where ready to see the full effect and get onto play testing the different rules.

Here are some shots of the full table with trees, fences, fields, and buildings:

Looking North: link
That's Rodders in the background reviewing rules as I take some photos

Looking South: picture

We started setting up the game to look at how the starting turns will work out for timing with the various rule sets.

Here are some opening position photos:

The Thin Blue Line: The Picket of the 10th Indiana (200) men hold Burton's Hill as the Rebs advance. Bledsoe/Saunders Cavalry have dismounted, having chased off a small 20 man picket of Union Cavalry, are unwilling to advance against rifles, armed only with shotguns and pistols. The skirmishers of the 15th Mississippi have formed with them, and await the main body advancing up the road. picture

The Reb Advance: Looking from Burton's hill we see Zollicoffer's lead regiments coming up the road. picture

The Union encampments at Logan's Field, with the alert being given, the men of the 10th Indiana form up, while the 1st Kentucky Cavalry forms in their encampment a further down the road, as Brigade Mahlon D. Manson rides off to tell his commander that the Rebs are coming! :roll: picture

More comments to come from play testing….

--Tom

Hi Tom,

Looks Great!

Update:

The buildings from Wisconsin arrived and I painted them tonight. They look good.

Play Testing the Elephant.

The Blinds system is interesting, and very tempting, you can move very quickly as long as your 16 inches away from the enemy and they can self activate. This is great, but if they get spotted, the get placed on the table then they are very expensive to activate. The Confederate attack stalled when I let Zollicoffer get too far back.

Here is a shot of the Confederate attack, you can see the blinds on the table, the Union is trying to get out of their encampments.
picture

The 15th Mississippi has taken Burton's Hill, brushing back the unsupported 10th Indiana pickets.
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The Union troops finally get on the move and deploy down along the Corn Field. The guns of the 1st and 9th Ohio ready to shell the top of Burton's Hill from Logan's Field.
picture

Comments on "They Couldn't Hit an Elephant"

Once we got our heads around the sequence of play. Its kind of odd, as once a card is activated, you get your command points, decide what to do, then fire, and THEN use the command points to move. It works fine, but we kept reversing move and fire.

Fire is very simple. 1 die for every 2 stands, sum up the dice, divide by the target value, that is the number of hits. There is no range modifiers for rifles, and what modifiers there are are very simple +/-1s added to the sum. The target value is a factor of how hard a unit is to hit. So units in cover have higher target values, than those in the open.

If a unit is hit, it takes a check, you have to keep track of the number of figures lost in the turn and the percent of remaining figures. Roll a single die to test with modifiers. The results can caused your units to bog down and get into a firefight, or they can be forced back, and need to be regrouped by using the commanders pips.

So you need pips to get going, you need pips to rally, you need pips to issue orders and you need pips to move your self, there ain't enough pips! So the Elephant makes you make decisions about what you can do, want to do, and what you can never do.

One odd thing that struck us, was there is no different movement speed for line or column. If your outside of 16" you can move multiple times, but if your within 16" you move the same rate. Turns for lines are done by wheels, so columns can snake better, but it seemed strange that they move the same speed. Nor where there any instructions on how to change formation. We assumed you formed around the flag stand, but you could have formed to the left or right.

Anyhow, once we got the flow of the Elephant it moved very fast and smoothly. It should be very easy for newbies to pick up, they just have to understand the concepts. :D

Update:

Play test of Carnage and Glory

We had a good play test, and got a few decisions made about how to get the computer system to deal with this scenario and terrain.

As usual, Carnage & Glory played smoothly and fast, we got well into the battle inside of 2 hours of play.

The Rebs press forward as fast as they could, with the 15th Mississippi forming line, and driving the pickets back, while the majority of the brigade flowed around the north side of Burton's hill past the Blacksmith's shop. The 19th Tennessee move to south side of Burton's hill, to encounter the 1st Kentucky Cavalry.

Here is a shot of the Reb Hordes moving over and around Burton's Hil:
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The 19th Tennessee finding the 1st Kentucky waiting in the gully for them. They would try to charge and balk, refusing to advance till Zolliecoffer joined them.
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The 10th Indiana with its pickets to its right and B Battery 1st Ohio to its left readies to face a lot of Rebs. More Rebs are flowing north through the woods, and up the gullies.
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Here is an overview of the battle, the 1st Kentucky Cavalry & 19th Tenn are out of shot at the bottom, while Bledsole's Cavalry are picking their way towards the Somerset/Columbia road. You can also see the 2nd Minnesota and 4th Kentucky marching to the aid of the 10th Indiana. The guns of the 1st Ohio, are covering the approach to Logan's field in the corner of the picture.
picture

Overall, we had few issues, but, open order seems very powerful, as it allows units to fly through the woods. The 19th Tenn. (in open order) tried to charge the 1st Kentucky Cavalry and failed. We thought the rules would make open order units difficult to reform. But as an experiment, we tried forming the unit into line, and its did it without difficulty.

Also Cavalry in open order seemed to move too fast. But, I can set its actual movement, by adjusting the charts.

Fire worked fine, but we had some issue with charging in and around the gullies, I've got a open question with Nigel on the C&G list. He is always fast to respond.

So a second good game, this looks promising, for the Con. :D

--Tom

any random draw cards for some of the command problems from the real battle?

There are cards built into the Elephant. There is political/cautious card, and if it is turned certain leaders can be affected if thier card is turned next. Resticting the players options on that turn. Conversely the bold/gifted card, can increase the odds of a commander moving in a turn. We have special scenario rules to deal with wet flintlocks.

Notes on C&G play test: Nigel pointed out that I was not halving the speed of units in Open Order in the woods. I had misread the rules, and thought that Open Order units where unaffected by terrain. They just do not suffer ‘cross disruptive terrain' effects, that cause disorder and fatigue.

So Open Order units will not "Fly" through the woods.

Well its done…

The con went off well, as did the games, sadly I forgot to bring my camera out of the car, I hope some people post some photos of the games.

I only ran one round, the Carnage and Glory round, but I saw the final statuses of the other two games.

One comment, was the scenario concept was universally liked, but a "March On" is never a good choice for a Con. I acknowledge this, but conversely, I really dislike "line them up and bash them" Con games. I thought the limited contact at the start of the game would allow for a lot of fast early turns, then settling into the fight. But with a four hour time limit and inexperienced gamers with the various rule sets we ended up with less playing time than I had hoped. Only C&G was near a clear conclusion by the end of the period.

I had decided the start of the scenario was the point were Zollicoffier encounted the second picket, and had to make his decisions on how to process the attack, the Union options are pretty simple, with the only real decision where to place the guns. As the battle develops the players will have to figure out what to do.

So of the players in round 2 and guys as convention game designers, that I have great respect for, had a comment for a con version of this battle would be better to rotate the table 60 degrees counter clockwise, so that the road from the Logan's field to Burton's hill crossed the table in the center. The left and right edges of the table would be the natural boundaries of the two VERY deep gullies of Hudson's creek and Fisher Creek. Taking the scenario forward in time, to the point where Zollicoffier's brigade was deployed the across the top of the hill, Carroll's brigade in column directly behind, and the Union deployed along the cornfield, with the Minnesota and Ohio on table moving towards the cornfield. Foregoing, giving the players any option of a contact decision for deployment. From a con point of view I think he is correct, but it defaults down to a variant of line up and bash, but the second lines will give some options. I'll work on this, because I can duplicate my boards and recycle much of my work.

This clearly would make a better con game, while the original makes a better club game. But I went with what I considered a more interesting approach for the con, and these were the results.

Round 1 Carnage and Glory (Computer Moderated)

This is the game I ran, and the one that came closest to decision, not because the players were going to achieve their goals, but because the two armies exhausted themselves from fighting each other and the terrain. Many units ran out of ammo and energy at critical moments.

The Rebs had pressed off the hill, and down to the (Union's Right) edge of cornfield, with the 15th Mississippi, and Bledsole's Cav, while the 19th Tennessee pressed came straight off the hill and into the Corn field's gully. As the other regiments marched to the Union left through the gullies to arrive at the far end of the Corn field on the union left, but the march was too much, and they had too little energy to smash the union left.

The Second brigade, raced down the hill to hit the Union right, but the Union had kept 12 rifles back in Logan's field and as the Rebs crested the rise they all let loose shattering the 16th Alabama (it got hit moving across the ridge, failed morale, staggered back to the crest, got hit again and routed away). But the regiment behind (on of the smaller Tennessee regiment), slipped by and formed behind the 10th Indiana, who had formed on the fence of the Cornfield on the union right.

As the game ended due to time, the attack on the Union Left failed, and the attack on the Union right, succeeded. But the 10th Indiana did not break, as they had just blown away the 19th Tennessee with fire, and had repelled the charge. But I doubt they would stand another turn. The single battery brought forward (9th Ohio) to the Corn field fell silent with exhaustion. So there was little fight left in the Union lines.

The system tracks Army Morale, just as the Rebs were going to win, the 16th Alabama and 19th Tennessee shattered, the edge the Reb had held was lost, at the end of the game both side where at 75%. Break point, but because neither side had a 3% advantage the system would allow them to fight on. Though at reduced effectiveness. So like two punch drunk boxers, they would lean on each other and slug it out for another 15 minutes.

12 Turns at 15 minutes a turn, gave us 3 hours of game time in 4 hours with new players.

Final situation, a draw, but victory looking like it would go the Rebs.

Round 2 Johnny Reb 2

This game was run by a friend, and honestly this was the only period I got to play a game so I did not see much of the action, but I did hear a few comments, and see the final status.

The Rebs did not split the first brigade, with the 15th Mississippi pressing down the hill, and the rest fanning out to its flanks The Reb player decided wet flintlocks would be an issue, and decided to press on with cold steel. The drove across the corn fields, threw back all before them, getting into the woods between the corn field and Logan's field. The Union reinforcements were forming on the fence line at the edge of the field.

The second brigade, marched through the woods and were edging up on the Somerset/Columbia road, with Union troops and guns holding the approaches to the Logan's field along that road as well.

One story I heard was the 15th Mississippi, advanced in line and caught the 2nd Minnesota in march column approaching through the woods, they got a first fire (they being the only Reb unit with rifled percussion muskets) at close range into the head of a march column with the possibility of causing 21 castings of damage if they rolled well. They didn't, they rolled "snake eyes" still doing 5 casting, but going out of ammo on the first shot! Ahh the joys of JR2. Comments, JR2 really rewards charging as a way of breaking units, and going in unloaded is a bonus. So the giant Reb units, just smashed their way through the Union, who could not gun enough guys down to stop them. But they where being ground badly down by Union fire. Without an endurance system, they could do this all day.

I think they got through at least 12 turns, at 15 minutes a turn 3 hours of game time in 4 hours (I need to get an AAR from the GM). Victory inconclusive but looking hairy for the Union, with the 2nd brigade shattered.

Game 3 "They Couldn't Hit An Elephant"

This was the final game of the night, run by another GM. As typical of a Too Fat Lardies game, its always kind of a crap shoot to run one of their game systems at a con. Because on any given turn one side or the other may not get to act, and some players HATE that. Now statistics say, all the numbers will equal out over time, but as they say; "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".

The Rebs need Crittenden to keep the flank attack happening, but as drunkard, (I had rated him as Political) he failed to give the commands. (By the system, there is a card that will cause a Political or Cautious commander to be limited in his options. Crittenden kept drawing this card, and stalled the flank attack.) So Zollicoffier ended up going in alone, as he was rated as Bold (again there is a card that makes Bold Commanders act) So even if the players wanted to hold back, for timing, the system drove Zollicoffier on.

Conversely, the Union couldn't get cards to move, so Zollicoffier, sort of ground up his edge of the battle field, but the overall attack was stalled as when the Union did get a run of cards, they could concentrate on defeating him in detail without fear of a flank attack, due to Crittenden's incompetence.

The game was called with the Union, starting to overwhelm Zollicoffier's 1st Brigade. So victory appeared to be going to the Union. I'll try to get a better AAR from the GM later.

Overall it seemed the players had a good time. The plan is to do these again as club games this time 5 systems, with enough time to play them out.

I'm also going to rework the boards for the Con version for Historicon, and I need to write up an article for Charge! and the Too Fat Lardies Summer special.

--Tom

The Mill Springs Project will be on the road and coming to Historcon this year. Looks like Friday is the big day. I'll be running the Carnage & Glory version in the Morning, Scott Mingus will be running the afternoon game with Johnny Reb 3, and my friend Rodney Fernald will be running They Couldn't Hit an Elephant that evening!

--Tom

Tom,

Great project! In the past few months we have played Mill Springs four times with Regimental Fire and Fury – 1 Rebel win and 3 Union wins. We decided to start the scenario at 9:00 a.m. when the pickets are out of the way and the 15th Mississippi charges across the open field. The green troops and lack of commanders in the woods made for difficult maneuvering and fragile formations. We all agree that it is a great little battle to play at the regimental scale.

Mark

Hi Mark

Yeah, I changed the setup to start the game at the point where Zollicoffer had deployed his brigades, and the 10th IN was holding the fence lines.

It makes a much better Con Game.

Well Historicon has come and gone.

We had Union victories in all games, but it was a very close thing in the C&G II game, and the Rebs snatched defeat from the jaws of Victory in the TCHAE game.

Some comments on this scenario, historically this battle was lost to bad command decisions by the Confederate commander. Also the Union, not having a sense of where the Confederates could be had to fight a much more conservative battle than any player would. The problem with the Union 800 foot general is he knows all and can deploy his forces as the Rebs slowly pick their way through the woods to get to his flanks.

Some thoughts on the systems, and this game. At the end of the day I think TCHAE is ultimately the best system for this scenario, because of its integral hidden movement system, fast flanking options, and its C&C system.

C&G maybe represents a better feel for the exhausting nature of the fight, with units petering out, however, there is no ability for hidden movement (as all critical events must be entered into the computer, and there is no way to dummy this, at an open table). Also there is no limitation on command, everything is under control. However it plays very fast, and works fine, but for this scenario its a poor fit.

JR2/3 has a hidden movement system that works reasonably well, but again total control for the players unless you enforce the command chip limitation. I think this could work pretty well, however, players get a bit bent being limited. Sadly at Historicon, we had a Reb player who had the worse dice I have ever seen (on his first 6 rolls he rolled 2 "2s" and 2 "3s") this is the kiss of death in a JR3 game. The Reb players had had a bad experience in their previous game and brought it to the table. Once this guy blew his rolls they declared the game over, even though the GM (Scott Mingus) said lets just reset and restart. So the jury is still out on JR2/3 I think with hidden movement, and command chip limitation you could get a pretty good simulation out of it.

TCHAE is far from a perfect system, they have some really weird basing requirements for Cav vs Infantry, I don't like the rout rules. More to the point I don't like the effect of routs on units (or lack there of). Only Defeated units are effected, I think that all units should check status, also there is no brigade morale effects. All these things are easily fixed.

Command and Control is critical in this scenario as the Rebs start with their forces nicely grouped, and issuing orders is easy. The Union conversely is spread out, and have a real dearth of command. But the tables turn by the end of the scenario, as the Union has nice internal lines of communication, while the Confederates need to try to control a flank attack. Only TCHAE does this well. Any game where both sides complain they don't have enough command is a winner for me. The Rebs are also hindered by a Political card that can randomly hit their CinC Gen. Crittenden, he avoided it most of the game, but at crunch time, he hit the bottle, and stayed in it. His critical command points being lost cost the Rebs victory.

Next system is Guns of Gettysburg, possibly Black Powder (fun game, not sure how good of a simulation it will give), and as we were sitting around Historicon, we think we will give Kriegspiel a shot with a true table top exercise.