"ECW cavalry?" Topic

Is there any battle in which Royalists didn't pursue a defeated cavalry wing off the battlefield once they achieved victory?

What was the primary impact of cavalry on infantry? Was it to reduce infantry mobility? Did cavalry basically force infantry to halt or move very slowly?

How often or how rare was it for ECW cavalry to break infantry pike squares? I assume it was pretty rare unless the infantry was devastated or the infantry panicked.

Is there any battle in which Royalists didn't pursue a defeated cavalry wing off the battlefield once they achieved victory?

Pick any battle that Prince Rupert didn't attend. Hopton Heath for starters. Roundway Down's another.

What was the primary impact of cavalry on infantry? Was it to reduce infantry mobility? Did cavalry basically force infantry to halt or move very slowly?

Infantry didn't move very quickly anyway. All those pikes need constant dressing if they aren't going to lose cohesion.

How often or how rare was it for ECW cavalry to break infantry pike squares? I assume it was pretty rare unless the infantry was devastated or the infantry panicked.

Depends how good the infantry firepower was. If you can hit the flank or rear of a pike formation it's going to be over pretty quickly. Drive off the enemy horse, pin the enemy infantry with your own infantry, hit them in the flank with your cavalry, goodnight Vienna. The ECW isn't noted for tactical innovation. Though the above may regarded as something of an over-simplification.

-----If you can hit the flank or rear of a pike formation it's going to be over pretty quickly.----

I assume that is only true if the pikes are unable to form square. If closely engaged to the front, pikes probably can't form square. If not directly engaged, they should be able to form square and be fairly immune-yes?

----Pick any battle that Prince Rupert didn't attend. Hopton Heath for starters. Roundway Down's another.-----

So the problem was Rupert's leadership rather than royalist cavalry in general.

Er, wasn't the Earl of Northampton killed by a poleaxe at Hopton Heath after pursuing too far, being surrounded and 'scorning to take quarter from such base rogues as these'? Roundway the Royalists pursued too, but not as far as Dead Man's Dyke….. and they did return to threaten the foot into surrender, while Hopton's lot were turning up.

Neither of the Newburys had outrageously extended pursuits or Newark afaik.

By the way, always wondered aout this, does anyone have an example of foot definitely forming hedgehog/pike stand/square sort of thing during the ECW?

Er, wasn't the Earl of Northampton killed by a poleaxe at Hopton Heath

Yes. In the second charge of his cavalry.

and they did return to threaten the foot into surrender, while Hopton's lot were turning up.

Quite. Your point? :)

By the way, always wondered aout this, does anyone have an example of foot definitely forming hedgehog/pike stand/square sort of thing during the ECW?

Yes. Jagger appears to think that a body of pike had the appearance of a hedgehog, with pointy bits sticking out every which way. My understanding is that is was hard enough to get the s to face one way effectively, let alone fight in all directions at once. All those pike shafts interlocking in the unit as they attempted to use the business end – sounds like a recipe for disaster.

----Jagger appears to think that a body of pike had the appearance of a hedgehog,----

Actually I am looking at diagrams from period training manuals demonstrating square formations for repelling cavalry.

Hey all, just before I hit the hay..

Connard, I think the question was whether the Cav pursued the enemy off the battlefield, which I think they did in both cases. I guess it depends how you define 'battlefield' :-). So in wargames terms they definitely had a few pursuit moves but eventually rallied and came back.

As for the pike stand versus Cav, I agree Jagger, 'tis definitely there in the drill manuals, but I can't immediately think of an occasion when anyone mentioned using it in the field. However that might not mean much, I doubt there are enough detailed accounts of ECW infantry v horse combat such that you would expect an answer. Maybe being TMP someone can come up with something nicely obscure!

If they won, they will pursue. If the Parliamentarians win, they also tend to pursue.

Strange no one condemns the pursuit at Roundway Down.

I think that most modern historians go with 'reddrabs' view. All cavalry pursue at this time and this included the Parliamentarians. When they appeared to halt it was just luck – at Marston Moor they got hit by fresh cavalry before they could start pursuing & this halted them.

There is an excellent series of books on the ECW by a Professor Wanklyn. See these for details.

On squares/defensive formations the key thing to remember is that with the standard of drill at the time they took a long time to form. So they are generally formed before the action starts or as a prelude to withdrawing. This is true for 100 afterthe ECW as well.

In gaming terms it should probably take 2, 3, 4 or more turns to go into these formations and during that time your unit is totally vulnerable. Alternatively you start in the formation. So you can do it but it is very risky.

"Jagger appears to think that a body of pike had the appearance of a hedgehog"

Didn't the white coats at Marston form up into a 'hedgehog' of sorts or atleast in a big clump in the middle of the field? They were a mix of pike and shotte though and when they ran out of ammunition, turned their muskets around and went clubbing instead!

Consul.