"What if Jeff Davis had fought?" Topic

We all know he was the compromise candidate for the presidency; and also that he was a military hero in the Mexican American War. I have also read that he was a reluctant president and would have prefered to command field troops.

Do you think the CSA would have been better served by another (who?) president – with Davis on the battlefield? Would he have been a good General?

With his known personality, I think he would have had too many personal conflicts with his peers to be an effective commander. In that regard, I think he would have been in the same category as D.H. Hill, Bragg, Polk, and Beauregard.

Might have been good up to the division level, but corps and higher his personality would have caused too many problems to be a benefit to the Confederacy.

I totally agree with Cleburne – Jeff Davis was brave, honourable and only had two opinions, his and the wrong one – would have probably been a great brigade/divisional leader, but higher up could have been another Bragg, albeit it with better manners

Man, I would have hated to have had Davis as a subordinate commander…
Or, my superior oficer for that matter!

Who would have been President, then, and would he have done a better job?

Please. He was captured while in drag, for heaven's sake.

Jeff Davis was a hero bold,
You've heard of him, I know,
He tried to make himself a king
Where southern breezes blow;
But "Uncle Sam," he laid the youth
Across his mighty knee,
And spanked him well, and that's the end
Of brave old Jeffy D.

CHORUS:
Oh! Jeffy D.! You "flow'r of chivalree,"
Oh royal Jeffy D.!
Your empire's but a tin-clad skirt,
Oh, charming Jeffy D.

This Davis, he was always full
Of bluster and of brag,
He swore, on all our Northern walls,
He'd plant his Rebel rag;
But when to battle he did go,
He said, "I'm not so green,
To dodge the bullets, I will wear
My tin-clad crinoline."

CHORUS

Now when he saw the game was up,
He started for the woods,
His bandbox hung upon his arm
Quite full of fancy goods;
Said Jeff, "They'll never take me now,
I'm sure I'll not be seen.
They'd never think to look for me
Beneath my crinoline."

CHORUS

Jeff took with him, the people say,
A mine of golden coin,
Which he, from banks and other places,
Managed to purloin;
But while he ran, like every thief,
He had to drop the spoons.
And maybe that's the reason why
He dropped his pantaloons.

CHORUS

Our Union boys were on his track
For many nights and days,
His palpatating heart it beat,
Enough to burst his stays;
Oh! what a dash he must have cut
With form so tall and lean;
Just fancy now the "What is it?"
Dressed up in crinoline!

CHORUS

The ditch that Jeff was hunting for,
He found was very near;
He tried to "shift" his base again,
His neck felt rather queer;
Just on the out-"skirts" of a wood
His dainty shape was seen,
His boots stuck out, and now they'll hang
Old Jeff in crinoline.

CHORUS

If there is a horror story worse than having Braxton Bragg in charge, then it might be Jefferson Davis in charge of the AOT or even "YIKES" the ANV!! Wow talk about history taking a different fork in the road! Excuse me while I try to cover up my exposed anti Bragg/Davis bias!!

Given time, I'm sure Davis could have alienated his entire officer cadre to an extent that made Bragg would look good in comparison.

In my opinion, he did get too involved in the military operations. One reason he moved the capital from Mongomery to Richmond was to be closer to the main action.

Please. He was captured while in drag, for heaven's sake.

valstar.net/~jcraig/capture.htm

"Besides the suit of men's clothing worn by Mr. Davis he had on when captured Mrs. Davis' large waterproof dress or robe, thrown over his own fine gray suit, and a blanket shawl thrown over his head and shoulders. This shawl and robe were finally deposited in the archives of the war department at Washington by order of Secretary Stanton.

The story of the "hoopskirt, sunbonnet and calico wrapper" had no real existence and was started in the fertile brains of the reporters and in the illustrated papers of that day."

I've often wondered myself if there had been someone else in the CS Presidency, what the outcome would've been, and what differences…

I've always wondered if John C. Breckenridge had been elected President of the CS. He did run for US President in 1860, and I think he would've on the whole been more influential and decisive in affairs concerning the Midwest and Western Theater states than Jeff was..

And I think he would've relieved Bragg…

Interesting question. If he had had to work his way up the chain of command, say from brigade to division to corps, etc, presumably he would have honestly reached his level of competence. It is difficult not seeing him starting out as something like the commander of the Mississippi state militia which he no doubt would soon have parlayed into appointment as major general. Perhaps he and Bragg would have wrangled over who would get the command in New Orleans. But the question is who in Davis' stead would have created the first cohort of full generals of the CSA and whether Davis' name would have made that short list. What would we have had vice AS Johnston, Cooper, Lee, J Johnston and Beauregard as the initial senior commanders? Perhaps something much different?

Murphy

Well,what an interesting what if! It would have been more likely if Kentucky was an official part of the CSA and not a "neutral" or actully "pro Union" State. Pro Union Regulars and irregulars outnumbered pro CSA types nearly 3 to one, so Breckinridge might have helped balance that out a small bit.

JCB did have some federal experience too. Couldn't have done worse IMHO! No Bragg after Perryville for sure!

Not a likely situation for many reasons, but still a very good option over what actully happened!

We'll hang Jeff Davis on a sour apple tree!
We'll hang Jeff Davis on a sour apple tree!
We'll hang Jeff Davis on a sour apple tree!
As we go marching on!

Sung by a procession of school children in Charleston, a month before Appomattox, after the rebel troops had fled the city.

I think you made your point, or whatever, the first time.

Allen will let you know what he thinks about the ACW in no uncertain terms! He can not be called a "fence sitter" to say the least!

Following in the grand tradition of naming important Army bases after incompetent treasonous generals, the largest post would be Fort Jefferson Davis.

What is it with Bowden and "Maine Men"?

John you are wrong. Fort McCellan was a very small post in Alabama yet he was a pretty incompetant General. it is even smaller than Fort Lee in Va.

Fort Hood in Texasis one of the largest Army posts.

So size of posts does reflect how bad a General one is.

Allen, I wish you would quit beating around the bush and just let us know how you feel

The question of whether another Confederate President might have made a difference is a good one, and Davis certainly liked to interfere – he only made Lee the overall commander in 1865 – Lincoln had his share of problems with generals but he didn't micro-manage to the extent that Davis did

"What if Jeff Davis had fought?"

Then he would have lost. Since he never commanded anything in the field larger than a regiment, it's impossible to know how badly or how quickly. I doubt if he would have been as good as Lee, or as bad as Bragg. Probably more pugnacious than J. E. Johnston, which means he'd probably have lost sooner.

I am far from being a fan of old Jeff, but I have to say that he was NOT captured "in drag." He was wearing his wife's raglan rain coat over his head and his own clothes, in an attempt to hide his face, is all.

As for the school children's song, Davis was quite unpopular in the Confederacy near the end. But his imprisonment without trial after being captured caused his stock to rise again, when it was thought that he was being treated unfairly.

Hmm I was thinking Breckenridge too – his candidacy was imo one of the flashpoints that lead to the civil war as it split the Democrats along state lines and effectively let Lincoln in through the back door.

There were plenty of other experienced politicians in the Confederacy too.

It makes sense that Jeff D would be given control of state troops – it is perhaps unfair to suggest that he would definitely have underperformed just because his experience to date was commanding a regiment – many of his contemporaries were at the same level – even the likes of Grant and Lee.

He was also acknowledged as a hero upon his return suggesting he was successful at that level with nothing to say he couldn't have been an able brigade or Corps commander.

I imagine due his prominance during the ante bellum era, he would have been given a brigade command at 1st Manassas, possibly taking Barnard Bee's Mississippi troops, so it may have been that he suffered the same fate?

"John you are wrong. Fort McCellan was a very small post in Alabama yet he was a pretty incompetant General. it is even smaller than Fort Lee in Va."

But Lil' Mac wasn't a TREASONOUS incompetent General, hence he just gets a small base. They saved the REALLY big bases for the incompetent guys from the losing side. 8)=

"Fort Hood in Texasis one of the largest Army posts."

I rest my case!

They saved the REALLY big bases for the incompetent guys from the losing side…

Ft. Irwin????

it is perhaps unfair to suggest that he would definitely have underperformed just because his experience to date was commanding a regiment – many of his contemporaries were at the same level – even the likes of Grant and Lee.

I didn't mean that his lack of experience at levels higher than regiment meant that he would have underperformed at higher levels, just that we had no historical data to go on for higher levels.