"Joseph Napoleon Regiment" Topic

im collating information on the 4 battalion Joseph
Napoleon regiment formed initially from the debris
of Rommans Division who didnt manage too escape the
"round up"

any snippets of info appreciated

Ged
GJM FIGURINES/ NGA ARCHIVES
gjm.figurines.co.uk/

ps may have been covered previously

Here you can find a complete uniform plate for this unit: link . As you can see, it must be payed for, however.

If interested, I have another plate which was once available for free in a French website. Email me at soldadets[at]wargames.cat.

Lluís

Thanks Lluis……….will contact you off line

still looking for any extra information/combats

however small etc.from other members thanks

regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/

NGA ARCHIVES

Lluis

can you kindly repeat your e-mail address

or better still send me one direct on gjm.figurines@btinternet.com

cheers

Ged

GJM FIGURINES

Dear Ged
I am assuming that you are referring to Romana's Division. I believe obtaining the following would be useful.

Boppe P. (1899 rp 1986) Les Espagnols a la Grande Armee, C. Terana Editeur

I wish you well in your search.
Stephen

Stephen
thank you……….i am indeed talking about

Romana'sDivision pity i cant spell it!!!

Ged

Spanish Uniforms 1808:

link

thanks Big Al

nice link………..

Ged

The unit was of 4 battalions (about 5,000 men) under the command of general Kindelán. They were formed around the soldiers of the regiments Guadalajara, Asturias and Algarbe, whom being stationed in Seelandia weren't able to escape with the rest of Romana's division.

They were in the Grande Armee, in the invasion of Russia. They fought at Vitebsk,Smolensk, Valutina, Sbodonovo, Borodino and Krasnoe; also were present at Maroyaroslavtes, but in that battle they were in the rear. The survivors surrendered short of the crossings at the Berezina (about 2,000 men; another 500 managed to retreat with the French; being later disarmed and formed as a worker battalion… the rest of them were dead by then). The Russians reformed them in two battalions, renamed the unit Imperial Alejandro Regiment and shipped them to Spain. One of the battalions was lost in a storm in the Northern Sea, while in transit to Spain. The other disembarked in Asturias (Northern Spain)in October 1814.

Later, in 1816, the regiment was shipped to America, to help to fight the Patriots in the South. After the Patriots were able to secure Argentina and Chile, they retreated with the remnants of the Royalists armies to Peru. They were present at the action of Huamantango (1821) [1st Battalion, around 200 men] and the battle of Ica (1822). In both battles their contribution was essential to defeat the Patriots. The last action of the Imperial Alejandro (2nd Battalion) was at the Battle of Ayacucho (December 12, 1824), where Sucre defeated the last royalist army in Perú (under the viceroy La Serna).

Probably, by then, there weren't too many veterans from La Romana's Division. Most of the rank and file were recruited locally, to make up for the loses. However I know that at least there were some NCOs that had fought in all the campaigns mentioned above.

Hope this helps,
Antonio

Antonio,

Thanks for that history, and what a story. The Joseph Napoleon regiment is one of my favorite wargaming units. I knew of their history up through the 1812 campaign, but did not know what had happened to them after them.

Rick

Ged,

Sorry for the delay in responding to you, I haven't got connected again to the Internet till a few minutes ago.

I've just sent you the uniform plate I talked about before. Hope this helps you in any way.

Best wishes,
Lluís

BTW, I've just happened to find another uniform and equipment plate else, this one on ImageShack: link

Hi Rick

I agree with you. That Regiment is one of my favourites too! And its story is one of the most interesting and colourful of the Napoleonic Wars.

Best
Antonio

Boppe. Les Espagnols a la Grande-Armée: le corps de la Romana (1807-1808). 1899. 257 pages:

link

link

Is this the Roi Joseph Regiment?
I was under the impression that it had dark brown uniforms in 1809

The Spanish infantry regiment 'Joseph Napoleon' was uniformed in white with green being its facing color.

Sincerely,
K

I was under the impression that it had dark brown uniforms in 1809

May be you are mixing the Regiments of the Spanish Army of Jose Bonaparte, with the Jose Napoleon Regiment. The former had brown uniforms, while the second had -as Kevin said- white uniforms with green facings.

The regiment 'Joseph Napoleon' was recruited from volunteers from two sources: the remnants of Romana's command that didn't get out on British ships and Spanish prisoners of war.

Enlistment was to be for four years. Regulations and discipline system were French, but the word of command was to be in Spanish with the exception of the sentry's challenge ('qui vive') so they wouldn't be shot up. The major, adjutantmajor, quartermaster-treasurer and one NCO per company were French who spoke Spanish.

Its depot was at Avignon and was completely formed being composed of 4 war battalions and a depot battalion (a 5th battalion was briefly formed). Initially, the regiment was in sad shape and had much desertion, so Napoleon sent the four battalions to separate locations (Flushing, Alexandria, Venice, and Maastricht) where they did work on fortifications and roads and morale and discipline improved rapidly. In early 1811 the 2d and 3d battalions were sent into Germany to serve under Davout.

The regiment's major was Jean-Baptiste Tschudy who was a French officer of Swiss parentage. Juan de Kindelan was the regimental commander, but he did not accompany the regiment into Russia. Tschudy commanded the 2d and 3d battalions and major-en-second Jean Doreille commanded the 1st and 4th battalions (one of his battalion commanders was Alexandre O'Donnell of an important Irish family, born in Luxembourg). They were in Davout's I Corps in Friant's division. The regiment was considered to be well-led, well-trained, and tough.

Fumble-fingered Murat and Ney got Doreille and most of the unit killed or captured in Russia but a hardened corps came out with their flag, which had been rescued by Adjutant-Major Emmanuel Lopez at Vilna.

The regiment's depot had been shifted to Namur and a 5th battalion was being organized there. The 2d and 3d battalions had fourteen officers and fifty enlisted men fit for duty at Coblenz and there was also a small detachment at Stettin. The survivors of the 1st and 4th battalions were rallying at Glogau. All of these survivors and new troops were reformed as a new 1st battalion and the veterans of Russia were organized into the two elite companies. Interestingly there were still Spanish POWs volunteering to serve. In April 1813 the battalion the battalion was 'pronounced superb and ready.'

The unit was assigned to Marmont's VI Corps and fought well at Lutzen, Bautzen, Leipzig, and Hanau and came back to France greatly depleted.

When most of the foreign troops were being disarmed in November of 1813 the remains of the 1st battalion, the regiments depot battalion, and the 8th Bataillon de Sapeurs du Genie were formed into a two-battalion regiment of 'Spanish Pioneers' but because of their distinguished combat record were not be be employed in pioneer work.

However, survivors of the regiment were to be found in the garrison of Magdeburg, the garrison of Glogau, the garrison of Stettin, some of them along with the Company of Spanish Veterans was in the garrison of Namur.

Sincerely,
K

Juan de Kindelan (7.xii.1759 – 13.xi.1822) was the regimental commander until 19.i.1812 (he had been appointed lt.-gen., in the Spanish Army, on 14.xi.1809, but continued to command the regiment until 19.i.1812).

Jean-Baptiste-Marie-Joseph Tschudy (1.viii.1774 – 12.iii.1834) was promoted to colonel of the regiment on 19.i.1812. He was wounded at both Borodino and Krasnoe. With the dissolution of the regiment by the decree of 25.xi.1813 he took command of the 131e regiment.

See Six (vol 2) and Quintin.

Gentleman

many thanks for all your extensive help

regards

Ged

Gjm Figurines.co.uk/
Nga Archive

Regarding this regiment there is a question about the

raising of a regimental artillery battery late in 1811

(boope……..les Espagnoles a la grande Armee pgs 112-113

and Nafziger (volume 5 regiments hors de ligne foreign regs)

dear George has found the names of the officers commanding

and the fact it would be based along french line

with 1 lieutenant, 1 sous lieutentant etc but he could

find no specific decree………interesting.

my question is do any of our artillery experts know

(educated guess) what pieces they were equipped with.

3/4pdrs from the main arsenal at Vienna……

any ideas Big Al?

regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/
nga archives

Von Winterfeldt

i answer to your question answered in part by Basileus 66

the "brown uniforms were worn by regiments ;

Madrid,Toledo,Sevilla,Soroa,Granada,Malaga,Cordoba with

various facing colours red, black , violet etc. joseph,s

Army is complex and contradictory in many areas. there

was a Royal regiment "Royal Estranger d'espagne which were

even more complicated the first battalion having straw

coloured jackets, mid-blue for the second,3rd battalion

white and finally the 4th battalion the famous

Havanna brown coats (so beloved in iberia )……..

regards

Ged
gjm.figurines.co.uk/

Yes – the Roi Joseph unit is another outfit as for Régiment Joseph Napoléon there is a lot of information in Napoleon's mercenaries by Guy Dempsey – great book.

The regiment was separated into two parts for the 1812 campaign:

A) Under colonel Tschudy (the regimental cmdr):

2e bat: Ducer (Ramon) d. 10.ix.1812 (Mojaisk);

3e bat: Llanza (Raphael) w. 10.ix.1812 (Mojaisk), w. 18.xi.1812 (Krasnoe).

B) Under major-en-2e Doreille (Jean-Baptiste) (d 18.xi.1812 (Krasnoe)):

1e bat: Sansot (Joseph) [replaced Kindelan (Joseph-Marie), the general's son, when he was promoted to major-en-1er];

4e bat: O'Donnell (Alexandre).

Dear Ged
I think the Joseph Napoleon Regiment was in very good company brigaded with the Swiss. [Extracted from Nafziger]

Developement of the French Army l8ll-l8l2
Corps d'Observation du Rhin l July l8ll
lst Division
Brigade
24th Légère Regiment (4) + 4th Regiment (4)
Brigade
l9th Regiment (4) + l23rd Regiment (4)
Brigade
lst Portuguese Regiment (2) +4th Swiss Regiment (2)

2nd Division
Brigade
26th Légère Regiment (4) + 72nd Line Regiment (4)
Brigade
46th Line Regiment (4) + l26th Regiment (4)
Brigade
2nd Portuguese Regiment (2) + Illyrian Regiment (2)

3rd Division
Brigade
l8th Line Regiment (4) + 93rd Line Regiment (4)
Brigade
56th Line Regiment (4) + l24th Line Regiment (4)
Brigade
Joseph Napoleon Regiment (2) + 3rd Swiss Regiment (2)

4th Division
Brigade
Tirailleurs du Po & Corsica (2) + 2nd Line Regiment (4)
Brigade
37th Line Regiment (4) + l25th Regiment (4)
Brigade
2nd Swiss Regiment (4) + 3rd Portuguese Regiment (2)

Stephen

Dear Ged
Interesting the other battalions were in the Corps d'Observation d'Italie.

Corps d'Observation d'Italie: 2 January l8l2
lst Division: General Delzons
8th Légère Regiment (2) + lst Provisional Croatian Regiment (2)
84th Line Regiment (4) + 92nd Line Regiment (4)

2nd Division: General Broussier
l8th Légère Regiment (2) + 9th Line Regiment (4)
35th Line Regiment (4) + 53rd Line Regiment (4)
Joseph Napoleon Regiment (2)

3rd Division:
3rd Italian Légère Regiment (4) + Dalmatian Regiment (3)
2nd Italian Line Regiment (3) + 3rd Italian Line Regiment (4)
5th Italian Line Regiment (2)

Light Cavalry Division: General Grouchy
lst Brigade
6th Hussar Regiment + 8th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment
2nd Brigade
6th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment + 25th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment
3rd Brigade
4th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment + 9th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment

thanks again………..Von Winterfeldt i agree the Guy

Dempsey book is superb……..my copy much thumbed….!!

Stephen and Steve…….cheers for all the effort

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk

ps the issuance of flags to this regiment…….no

Eagle awarded despite a sterling performance at Borodino

the "deserter " issue is anothe matter i guess

cest la guerre!!!

its a long shot but does anyone including our spanish

friends know if the four tricolour standards were taken

into combat in Russia and Italy.

they never received an eagle as they were iberian

even though they exceeded 1200 men per regulations

regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk

Nga Archives

Dear Ged
Certainly a very interesting unit. To have the misfortune of being in Denmark when insurrection accurred against the illegal occupation of Spain. To be unable to evacuate with the rest of Romana's Corps to Spain upon Royal Naval Ships.

It is interesting that it seems that only three and half of the four artillery companies were evacuated. Although this is unclear. It certainly says something that although no horses were evacuated, the ordnance according to the returns was.

Artillery [13x 4-pdrs, 6x 8-pdrs& 6x 6.4in How] 14 officers and 349 other ranks. The ordnance were Spanish Gribeauval. Before the evacuation there was 480 artillerymen.

Each foot battery had an establishment of 8 pieces and the horse battery with 6 pieces.
6x 8-pdrs + 2x 6.4in How
6x 4-pdrs + 2x 6.4in How
4x 4-pdrs + 2x 6.4in How
3x 4-pdrs [Horse Artillery]

Looking at this there are 3 pieces missing which was hald a battery. It would be interesting to confirm this. Alas I have been unable to determine the position of the artillery companies. It was common practice to garrison artillery in sections or half companies.

It is interesting that there was only one battery of 8-pdrs. I am assuming that they did not have mixed gun batteries as the Revolutionary French.

Therefore, the Joseph Napoleon Regiment did not have the option of battalion artillery in late 1808. When the decree was established for battalion artillery, the Regiment was already on campaign in Austria. As far as I am aware they received their Regimental guns after the capture of Vienna therefore they would be equiped with Austrian Leichtenstein 3-pdr on the modified M1780 carriages.

It should be noted that the design of the carriages and the barrels changed in 1780. The touch hole was moved from the base ring as in early 18th century ordnance to the more modern vent field. This can be seen from the pictures of the extent guns in Dave Hollins book on the Austrian Ordnance. The carriages were lightened with the removal of the poles.

As ever ordnance is a difficult area. I hope this assists. More information to make firmer information is as ever important to get closer.

Stephen

Regarding the regimental artillerie see:

link

Regimental artillerie see:

link

Personnel see pp 215-220:

Lieut.:

Labaig (Joseph): seriously w., prisoner 18.xi.1812.

Sous-lieut.:

Sanchez (Jean): promoted to lieut. and returned to infantry (after 10.ix.1812), d. 10.xii.1812.

Montnel (Francois): replaced Sanchez, prisoner 10.xii.1812

NB It would appear the regimental artillerie was with colonel Tschudy and the 2e & 3e bats and was formed prior to entering Russia. When officers were out of action or transfered they were replaced.

The 1811 Petrov catalog of Napoleonic artillery tubes in the Kremlin collection lists eight 4lb Spanish gun tubes cast from 1787 to 1794. Another colleage stated these tubes had been captured by Dutch forces in Spain.

Regarding the presence of standards (drapeaux) during the 1812 campaign see footnote 1, on page 155:

link

Dear Steven
Well it seems that I will have to revise what I had said. The 8x Spanish 4-pdrs is certainly interesting as to their origin and whose they were. As far as I knew only the Young Guard too Gribeauval 4-pdrs into Russia. The only others were the Saxon M1766 Schnellfuergeschutze as Regimental Guns.

The Spanish army lost a considerable amount of ordnance in the Revolutionary wars. I do not know exactly how much ordnance that Romana took to Northern Germany. He had three foot companies and one horse company. Each I have assumed to be 8 pieces each. From what they took back to Spain, it seems that 5x 4-pdrs were left behind but there are a considerable number of assumptions there.

I am assuming that they are Gribeauval pattern. Alas I have seen very little Spanish ordnance of the period. The difficulty as ever is British and especially American sources that call everything that is a bracket carriage as a Gribeauval guns.

Thank you for Boppe. I will have a look at the pages you suggested as 215-220. Can you restate the ones for artillery in page numbers as the link is not direct in UK.

The more you research into ordnance the less clarity there seems to be.

Thanks
Stephen

My friend,

From Boppe p 128:

"Stralsund, le 21 février 1812.

Le Conseil d'administration principal du, régiment Joseph-Napoléon à S. E. Monseigneur le duc de Feltre, Ministre de la guerre.

Monseigneur,

Son Excellence M. le Ministre Directeur de l'administration de la guerre nous annonce par sa lettre du 5 janvier que l'Empereur, par un décret du 29 décembre 1811, a ordonné qu'il fût fourni pour le 1er du courant aux bataillons de guerre que nous administrons des équipages d'administration et d'artillerie.

II nous mande que les dix voitures d'artillerie nous seront délivrées par les soins de Votre Excellence, et qu'elle devra régler et nous faire connaître le cadre et les dispositions de notre compagnie d'équipages en nous indiquant aussi les places où nous devrons prendre les pièces et voitures d'artillerie qui nous sont destinées.

Nous avons l'honneur de prier Votre Excellence de vouloir bien nous faire connaître dans le plus bref délai possible son intention à cet égard et de vouloir bien nommer pour notre compagnie d'artillerie deux officiers français qui aient servi dans cette arme, vu qu'il n'en existe aucun dans le régiment que nous administrons et qu'il est d'ailleurs d'absolue nécessité pour la bonne administration et économie de cette compagnie que l'officier qui la commandera entende parfaitement le français et ait des connaissances dans le service, a Daignez agréer, etc.,

Signé : Llanza, Chef de bataillon.
Signé : Ducer, Chef de bataillon.
Signé : De Tschudy. Le Colonel commandant le regiment.

(Archives administratives de la guerre.)"

Not only are there 8 Spanish cast 4 lbers in the Kremlin 1911 catalogue, there are also 25 Republican and earlier period French 4 lbers cast as early as 1767 (Douay).

Note: Boppe pp 215-220 only concerns personnel.

Yours, in firm research,

Steve

Dear Steven
Thank you for the extract. It is interesting in a number of points.

1. Joseph Napoleon Regiment was in Stralsund which is Swedish Pomerania.
2. The Regimental Artillery was ordered on 21 February 1812.
3. Command was by two Frenchmen rather than Spanish officers. Possibly indicating that the original artillerymen and officers were not serving with the Regiment.
4. The original order was for 10 pieces of artillery and the crew was taken from the Infantry Regiment. I thought it was 2 guns per battalion and there were 4 Bns.
5. Interesting commenting upon the lack of fluent French spoken. That may have been an excuse.

Certainly interesting the 25 French 4-pdrs cast pre 1800. I have always prescribed these to the Young Guard. I have assumed that only the Young Guard had Gribeauval 4-pdrs so we have now 33 4-pdrs out of 40 accounted for???

Thanks
Stephen

brilliant stuff Big Al

Stephen

Joseph Napoleon Regimental gun scenario is definately

a process of elimination , it would be wonderfull to have

the lists of the guns taken by the Russians.Petrov

catalogue? i wonder if the origin and usage of all captured

equipment in Russia has been accounted for?

As the Young Guard had Gribeauval 4prs maybe some of these

were "borrowed" by the Spaniards…………who knows!!

regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk/
Nga Archive

Of possible interest:

"CANONS DANS L'lNFANTERlE BATAILLONS, DEMI-BRIGADES ET RÉGIMENTS (1740-1813)" PAR MARTIN DE BRETTES, Lieutenant-colonel d'Artillerie en retraite; CHAPITRE VII: "Artillerie régimentaire" found in "Le Spectateur militaire", Vol. 43 (OCTOBRE, NOVEMBRE, DÉCEMBRE 1888 (LlV. 196 A 20l)), pp 215-227:

link

Re your several 'points':

"2. The Regimental Artillery was ordered on 21 February 1812."

"… annonce par sa lettre du 5 janvier que l'Empereur, par un décret du 29 décembre 1811, a ordonné qu'il fût fourni pour le 1er DU COURANT aux bataillons de guerre que nous administrons des équipages d'administration et d'artillerie." Note: "… fût fourni pour le 1er DU COURANT …."

"4. The original order was for 10 pieces of artillery and the crew was taken from the Infantry Regiment. I thought it was 2 guns per battalion and there were 4 Bns."

No, "dix voitures d'artillerie" NOT "pièces" d'artillerie! Note the later "pièces et voitures d'artillerie" in the text.

As to the artillerie régimentaire ….
I see that Mr. Smith got in ahead of me with most of my intended comments.
However, one can note that in late November 1811 that the régiment Joseph Napoléon was not reporting any guns in Davout's summaries, and that he would be likely intending them to have at most the allotment of 2 of the 4 pièces established for a full régiment (as only half the régiment actually was present in the corps) and that these would be canons de 3-lvr as per the rest of the corps. 10 voitures is also a half-complement of wagons.
Since we have the particulars for the assigned officiers and other related, it would be most likely that such a detachment was formed and then lost in Russia.

For flags ….

"l'un des plus beaux mystères vexillologiques!" – RIGO
The basic evidence is that they most likely never received an aigle – not one.

The ministere de la guerre duc de Feltre wrote in mai 1812 :
"à la époque de sa formation [1809-1810] le corps reçu quatre drapeaux tricolores sus lesquels furent empreints les armes de sa Majesté Catholique"
To me, this sounds like a standard regimental drapeau : blue and red in the corners, white field (with the armes d'Espagne), gold trim with the no. of the bataillon in the corners, maybe some gold block lettering like "RÉGIMENT JOSEPH NAPOLÉON" "1er BATAILLON".

A manuscript note in the archives of the prince de La Moskowa :
"une vieille dame possédant dans sa collection un drapeau vert et blanc du régiment Joseph Napoléon"
To me this sounds less lkely – perhaps an error or mis-identification, or the drapeau used as a unit of pioneers.
The Russians did not claim any of these as trophies, and the source already linked describe (perhaps hyperbolically) the survivors groups arond the flags. But one cannot discount the possibility that one or more drapeau was destroyed in Russia to avoid capture, and that a simply made green and white replacement was fabricated in 1813.

See Tradition No. 88 (mai 1994) for a nice unifomology article by RIGO.

Interesting detail – after a soldier of the 15e légère was killed with a dagger by a Spanish soldier in Janauary 1812, the Spanish soldats and sous-officiers in Davout's coprs were prohibited from carrying sabre-briquets or other bladed weapons.

Chuvak

Dear Steve
Thank you for pointing out my erant French. As you realise I could not work out the ten pieces when it should have been vehicles.

Dear Chuvak
The allotment of 2x 3-pdrs makes sense to a 2 Bn Regiment. Being that the regiment operated in two halves. Each were commanded by a French officer.

Interesting over prohibition of sabres-briquets and other bladed weapons to the Spanish in I Corps. I assume that they were permitted bayonets. These are still lethal weapons although they do not have a handle. I doubt this would have limited the inventiveness of the Spanish soldier. Certainly not having a Briquet would be a disadvantage on foraging and gathering firewood. I am not convinced of the briquet as a weapon. The musket with bayonet or musket as a club is effective.

Stephen

I have not been resting on my laurels! I have been standing up.

I found the "décret du 29 décembre 1811" in Margueron's "Campagne de Russe", vol 3, pp 461-462. This is a list showing the "composition des equipages regimentaires d'infanterie et de cavalerie" by unit.

For the 'Espagnols' of four 'bataillons':

four 'caissons des vivres';

one 'caisson des ambulance'; and

one 'caison des compatabilite'.

No idea how they got "dix voitures d'artillerie" out of that, unless one adds in the number of batallions! <;^}

I will post these two pages when I can get the !@*&$ computer to recognize the scanner.

B

Dear Dr. Summerfield,

I have no idea how long the prohibition was in place – it may have just been ordered to assuage the anger of the général de division comte Friant.

I agree about the sabre-briquet. I am but a poor swordsman – even my wife can defeat me in fencing – but I have thought them most unhandy whenever I tried one. I think a knife in one boot (and a spoon in the other) would be a bit more useful than the briquet and its leatherwork. Perhaps v. Winterfedlt or another active re-enactor can give a better idea of their use.

With kindest regards,
Chuvak

Dear Big Al

Really the 10 wagons are not necessarily part of the imperial decree.

"équipages d'administration et d'artillerie" = that which was decreed 29 December to be provided by 1 February, a decree made known to the regiment by the letter of the Minister of War Administration of 5 January. And you provided the detailed list from the decree.

"Il nous mande" = (most likely) He, the Minister of War Administration : "He informs us"
"It" = It (possibly, but poor grammar) : in this case the "it" is NOT the letter ("lettre" is feminim) – BUT, the "it" is a slightly mangled way of saying "on nous mande" : "One informs us" or "We are infomed" ---- none of the signatories is French, n'est-ce pas ?
"qu'elle devra régler" = "elle" is she, Votre Excellence ("excellence" is feminime) = the ministre de la guerre duc de Feltre : "that you shall specify"

"II nous mande que les dix voitures d'artillerie nous seront délivrées par les soins de Votre Excellence, et qu'elle devra régler et …."
"He [the Minister of War Administration] informs us that the 10 wagons will be delivered to us due to the kind attentions of Your Excellency, and that Your Excellency [lit. "she"] shall specify and …."

There is no reason to include the 10 wagons in the decree of 29 December. These could have been an additional topic in the letter of 5 January from the Minister of War Administration or a suject of prior correspondence with the Minister of War.
(One recalls that these were two different ministries.)

Chuey

Chuey,

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." <;^}

Big Al

Big Al et all tremendous input

regards

Ged

Dear Chuvak
Thank you for your French lesson. Alas I gave up French some 30 years ago so it is a bit rusty.

Stephen

From Margueron's "Campagne de Russe", vol 3, pp 461-462:

link

link

Click on page to enlarge.

It is not how leathal a sabre briquet is, it is a matter of status, like epaulettes, mousetache, a queue, ear rings – it is useless and cumbersome – but is gives you status.

áëàãîäàðèòå Âàñ áîëüøîé àë çà òîò çîëîòîé ñàìîðîäîê

Thats……..thanks Big Al for that golden nugget!!

regards

gedofski

ps

doesnt look very Russian to me……..o well i tried

Big Al

the collation of all academic bits and pieces is dropping

nicely into place…………….

GJM

Several representations (i.e. guesses) of the standard can be seen here (one by my friend Rafa):

link

Dear Ged
There is a discussion upon a French forum on the Joseph Napoleon Regt. The flag shown looks believable. The illustrated uniforms are from a Russian Publication but I do not know where from.

link

Stephen