"Fire and Fury Flags" Topic

hi guys,
Need to pick you brains regarding fire and fury.
Im new to the rules havnt played them yet but i do own a copy. what it is, is this theres roughly four of us and we are hoping to refight Gettysburg in a couple of years time that should give us time to buy and paint the needed figures.
Now im going to paint 11th corp of the union army for starters, what flags would be you recommend? would you use just the American national flag per brigade? or more than one flag?
As the brigades are made up on numerous regts could you add regt flags to different bases in the brigades?

Join the Johnny Reb III Yahoo group and check out the files section. All the flags you need are there.

link

All my Union stuff has two flags per brigade command stand, stars & stripes and a 'regimental' flag.

Most of my Union Fire and Fury brigades have two flags, as noted the National and Regimental flags

Lazy dog that I am, my Rebs get by with a single Battle Flag per brigade

I didn't build any specific units, all mine are generic, so I didn't put any regimental colors on my ACW troops just the national flag.

This way they can be pressed into service for any battle without someone saying "hey, that regiment wasn't even at this battle."

Of course instead I get "why don't you have any regimental colors?"

Pick your poison over which comment you prefer to hear.

Take a look at warflag.com for some nice FREE flags. As I paint my ACW as "generic" I tend to use either a national standard or a state/regimental on my command stands. Sometimes I'll put one of each.

Make sure you get the Divisional and Corps flags for the "Dutchmen." Several purveyors have sets.

It does not matter in F&F, but lots of USA players put both a National and a Regimental flag on the "Command" stand! CSA usually only get a single battle flag of some type.

Hi guys thanks for the replys i think i will go with the National and Regt flags on the command stand

Keep in mind that shortly after Antietam, the regulations were changed where Union regiments would only carry the National colors. The state and regimental flags were sent home.

KeithRK

What?? Where did you get that from? If true it would be a very big shock to me! It would be news, I think!

KeithRK

I question that a bit too – I am looking at my Don Troiani print of the 2nd Wisconsin in Herbst Woods by Don Troiani (whose research I think is pretty good) and in the print they are sporting both a National and State flag…

If the regulations were changed do you have any evicence to what extent they were or were not followed?

James

You know you're right. I must have jumped to conclusions.

I went back to find where I had seen that about returning the state/regimental flags. I have read in some regimental histories where they did send back the state flag and carried a national flag after that. The First Minnesota for example looks like they only carried a national flag at Gettysburg. They actually went through a number of flags during their time of service.

Also Casey's Tactics only mentions 1 color sergeant in the composition of a color guard.

I just added 1 + 1 and got 3.

Here's what Casey's Tactics says about the color guard. Mentions of the color sergeant or the color are singular, which seems to indicate one color not two.

Casey's Tactics (version from 1862)
Volume I, Title I, Article I
Para. 14
The color, with a guard to be hereinafter designated, will be posted on the left of the right centre battalion company. That company, and all on its right, will be denominated the right wing of the battalion; the remaining companies the left wing.

Para. 43
In each battalion the color-guard will be composed of eight corporals, and posted on the left of the right-centre company, of which company, for the time being, the guard will make a part.

Para. 44
The front rank will be composed of a sergeant, to be selected by the colonel, who will be called, for the time, color bearer, with the two ranking corporals, respectively, on his right and left; the rear rank will be composed of the three corporals next in rank; and the three remaining corporals will be posted in their rear, and on the line of file closers.

Para. 46
The corporals for the color-guard will be selected from those most distinguished for regularity and precision, as well in their positions under arms as in their marching. The latter advantage, and a just carriage of the person, are to be more particularly sought for in the selection of the color-bearer.

Keith – Thanks for the infor from Casey's – very interesting!

I would guess (and its just a guess) that some units had a single flag and some kept (at least for some time) both….

James

For fun I did a very quick search and came upon this (and I con honestly say its a coincidence that its a Vermont unit :-) ) It relates to an incident at Petersburg – Its also funny that it relates to Seargent Sargent (shade of Catch 22)

The words of Ronald A. Kennedy Lt. Colonel of 5th Vermont and the Regimental commander during the assault, provide us with a first person account of Sargent's deeds on April 2, 1865. This letter was written as a recommendation for promotion, and on May 10, 1865, Sargent received a commission to 1st lieutenant in co K of the 5th Vermont.

"I have the honor of submitting the following statement relative to the part taken by Sergeant Jackson Sargent of Company "D", and bearer of the state colors of this command, during the engagement of Sunday April 2, 1865, before Petersburgh.

From the moment the order was given to advance, he bore the colors aloft to the extreme front, and running to the main work of the enemy planted them firmly upon the parapet while the fort was still working its guns, and full as soon as any of our men had scaled the works. From that time until we halted for the night he was even ahead of the line, and no man could help seeing the flag, as it was borne in a manner to let those who had strayed from the companies during the confusion attending the charge, see them, in order to rejoin their commands. He was slightly wounded in the left arm, but did not leave the field. Whenever opportunity offered, or possibility allowed, the state and national colors of the 5th were the first to elicit the cheers of the advancing lines, as they appeared planted firmly upon the works of the enemy, never were taken down. All that could be expected of a color bearer and even more. His past record, as a soldier, since 1861, is spotless, and his bravery and heroism is exceeded by none. His soldierly bearing in every sense is example by, and for his deeds, in the past and present, and judging from them for the future, I heartily commend him to your honorable consideration."

(Click on Flag for Larger Image)

5th VT Regimental Colors believed to have been carried by Sargent at Petersburg. Photo Courtesy of Don Wickman

James

One final cool note –

Seargent Sargent won the CMH for his actions at Petersburg

I found a post script that indicated

Jackson Sargent mustered out of the army on June 29, 1865 and returned to his home in Stowe Vt. On October 28, 1891 he was issued the Congressional Medal of Honor for being "First to scale the enemy's works and plant the colors thereon" on April 2, 1865. Jackson did attend the reunion of the 50th Anniversary of the battle of Gettysburg in 1913. Jackson Sargent died on October 2, 1921 at age seventy-eight. He is buried in River View Cemetery in Stowe Vermont.

James

I just had one for CSA and the National Colors and a generic regimental flag for the union.

You are very brave in wanting to paint and field the Union 11th Corps. I tip my hat to you.