"Richard Ansell's Sculpting - The Shape of Things to Come" Topic

Borrible,

sorry to have sound hostile. Your first link was indeed to a 54mm andrea page. But to be quite honest the 1/72 you linked weren not that nice. The 30mm Andrea nappy looks nice, but my question is how it will look on the table?

Ihave gamed with plastic 1/72 and britannia or AB 20mm and the effect on the table was different. Also when I get a figure cloe up in my hands and when I got a full army on the table everything looks different.

To Oniria, if you loook attentively CGI is distorted according to the perspective it is supposed to shown. You can get it much more in games (where you can actully look where you want) rather than movie. and also usually the landscape you are seeing in movie a re a bit different from what you see in games.

The point is that the OP launched a statement defining everything he didn'like as second or even worse quality. There is a large group of fellows who does not think that way.

Of course people like Oniria ditto and others have their idea. Often different background, different uses, and different tastes come into place.

Ehy, IMHO opinion Verdi is music, heavy metal is tlike the sound of the turret of my old centauro was producing while turning! A lot of people do not think the same… (ok in this case maybe they are brainless…)

But to make some sort of conclusion… I think everyone is entitled to his or her opinion (even non wargamers like ditto's wife!), but respecting the other and not loudly annoucing his view are the way forward and everyone else is doing bad things…

Look even people liking the new figures then discuss about the same hand in different settings (like Minden) I have seen Minden and I cannot say honestly they are bad, it would be unfair and untrue. But If I have to switch to 28mm SYW I would prefer Front Rank or even the new Foundry… despite they incorrect anatomy they feel better to me.

Arrigo

You have to shade and highlight becasue you have to "scale" the light/ lighting reflected in the figure. Then depending on different skill levels or tastes this can look realistic or not.

I agree with that but it seems to me one is bringing out detail that one would only see up close and making it such that it can be seen at distance. One is seeing details one would not see at the equivalent distance in reality. But that is not a bad thing as it enhances the whole visual appeal.

Good sculpting mimics that effect by subtly moving away from realistic dimensions to producing a more visually appealing figure on the table top. Bad sculpting gives one pumpkin heads.

@Arrigo
The link is for the 30mm Napoleonic site.Must be an automatic redirection to the main site.I get there directly probably through my browser cache.

So the argument is down to: Some like one style and others some other.Thats fine with me.I just say exactly that.

"Having read this, it appears that I've completely misjudged the market!
In future I shall go back to sculpting in my old style of bigger heads hands and weapons seeing as that is what the majority of gamers seem to wish."

Arghhh!!!! No, No, No, No, No.

I presume Richard is pulling our (anatomically correct) leg, PTCohn …

This thread shows the market desires *both* styles, and Richard is clearly a master of the more anatomically correct style.

I presume Richard is pulling our (anatomically correct) leg,

Unfortunately not. Since I adopted this style, work has become increasingly hard to come by.
I'm assuming companies don't wish to take a chance on incompatible figures and I think this thread has proved them correct. This has probably finished off any chance of getting new work based on that style as the majority of posts run along the lines of "nice figures but I'll stick with the others thanks".
I can't see anyone wanting to commission another range after reading that.

It appears that to try and pick up work I will need to either go back to the other style or just find a more mundane job in the real world.
It's been hard to make ends meet lately and this thread has brought home to me the fact that perhaps I've been wasting my time on something that is just not commercially practical.

I shall carry on my obligations to Alban and Minden for as long as possible, but first and foremost I need to find a way to pay my bills.

Richard, I have a project that might be of interest. Please contact me at the following webpage:
link

Best,
Steve
Cavalcade Wargames

I think it would be a great pity if Richard abandoned this style of work; it obviously has adherents, and I think greater attention to proper proportion is becoming more and more accepted. That said I can sympathise that whatever pays the bills is what has to come first; sculpting is not an easy way to make a living.

I myself only started 28mm sculpting in the last 12 months, so I had a look at various styles for inspiration. I quickly settled on the Perries as the style that I found most pleasing, the abstractions fairly subtle, and seems popular. So now I endevour to follow their style as far as I can. I don't mean I copy what they do but I take their figures as the basis of proportion and anatomy. I do not mean to imply that my work is therefore like that of the Perries; its not. I simply view them as the very high standard I have to strive toward.

That's just my personal choice. Its different than Richard's style, but I still admire Richard's more realistic style immensely, in part because I see how hard it must be to adhere to its standards and not begin to vere back towards the more abstracted "wargaming" style.

Wargaming is a broad church, perhaps more so than ever before, so I hope there is room for this style (lots of people seem to love Mindens). Whatever style you choose Richard, please stay in the sculpting business!

I find it incredible that such a talented scultptor is being driven out of the hobby, not because his work has faults but rather that they are just too anatomically accurate.

When we have limited edition figures made to go with our rule sets, like Sharp Practice or Mud and Blood we use Richard for the very reason that he is the best in the market. His figures ARE real people in miniature.

Personally I think that Richard's realistic style is having a positive influence on the market, and that other figures are becoming more life-like in their proportions. As someone said above, his figures are not out of place next to most other manufacturers nowadays, that is because other companies are slimming down the way they sculpt their figures. The Perries range is a great example of this.

What is also absurd is that Richard CAN sculpt in a more "traditional" fashion, even with pumpkin heads if you like them like that.

he is hardly being driven out of the hobby..

"and that other figures are becoming more life-like in their proportions"
I really hope that isn't/doesn't happen.

One of the reasons that my 15mm Napoleonic British army are all Minifigs 3D is that they look more like human beings than anything else avaiable.

I think the reason that metal figures ard "chunky" is because they were originally cast in lead. As the size gets smaller, the figure gets chunkier to avoid snapping of bits in the mold. Hence color bearers carrying telephone poles and having hug hands to hold them.

After decades of gaming figures all looking like dwarves, gamers simply became accustomed to seeing them and painting them. Anything of more normal proportions now looks strange and out of place.

However, with advent of the hard plastic 28mm figures, proportions are returning to normal. I have to give credit to GW for the LotR figure line for realizing that there is a market for more anatomically correct figures and that pewter, unlike lead, is capable of producing strong enough castings.

Personally, I see the hard plastics paving the way to more realistic figures. Pewter will have to follow suite in order to mix well. In a few years, we will all be accustomed to seeing and painting more anatomically correct figures and the chunky figures will look crude in comparison.

I agree with TFL.

I've noticed some other sculptors who seem to have slimmed down their figures a bit and have put more effort into making more realistically proportioned weapons.

In the end it is common sense, a standard scale, 1:56, for figures, weapons and equipment will broaden choice, increase availabilty and lower costs.

At the moment every "28mm figure" range requires its own equipment to be moulded to suit the style of body sculpture, or big hands to hold a 1:48 rifle.

We demand scale accuracy for all the equipment, guns, vehicles etc. but ignore it for the figure and "his" personal equipment.

We will count the buttons and criticise the cuffs but ignore out of scale back packs and muskets – go figure.

I for one think that Richard is an excellent sculptor and I will be voting with my cash.

"Unfortunately not. Since I adopted this style, work has become increasingly hard to come by".

…this is the world upside down…

"and that other figures are becoming more life-like in their proportions"
I really hope that isn't/doesn't happen.

It already is happening. Compare the work the Perrys did for Foundry compared to their recent lines. he newer stuff is much more in proportion and the head size to height ratio more relaistic. Where they and other elite sculptors ( Tom Meier, Richard Ansell…) lead, the others will follow.

Well, my personal choice is not for a totally scaled-down miniature.

As with some others here I find that I prefer a somewhat exaggerated sculpt both because it stands out a little bit more on the wargames table, and frankly because I enjoy painting that kind of miniature (and they are a little bit easier on my eyes).

I'm already compromising on history by representing a battalion of 500 men with 20-30 models or less, and the scale "footprint" is way, way out. I can live with some exaggeration for effect with the miniatures, too.

This does not mean I want gargoyles either; one doesn't have to choose from one extreme or the other.

But I can see why people would go for the more slender figures, too. Indeed I like both styles for different reasons.

But most of my collection is of the "chunkier" type of miniature, and more importantly I'm quite happy with them. I'm not "hungry" enough for the more slender figures to feel any need to chuck everything out and start over, especially as the selection and variety available is not yet even close to what I would need.

Regardless, I think Richard Ansell hit on the main issue. As is usually the case in business, the market will ultimately decide which style predominates the industry based on demand.

Having said that, I would hope the hobby could support both styles. Many people who (vainly?) advocate standardization would hope, of course, that the standard would be settling on their own preferred choice and style of miniature.

So I feel that for all it's frustrations, variety has it's merits. And like anyone else I wouldn't want to be told which I should adopt, or which should be the industry standard, based on another person's idea of what is or should be aesthetically pleasing.

The more things change the more they stay the same. This style of figure was available in the 80's. GHQ made a 25mm horse and musket range. Going back further, Minot did 30mm AWI troops in this style.

"and that other figures are becoming more life-like in their proportions"
I really hope that isn't/doesn't happen.

I'm your Huckleberry!

I'm happy to take a contrarian position to that statement. I hope that more sculptors do transition towards more realistic looking figures and I will continue to support those companies that embrace figures that bear some resemblence to real human beings.

I will support such companies by purchasing their products in very large quantities, by painting said figures and hosting colorful wargames at regional and national conventions, by blogging about their product and promoting their products in any way that I can.

Regardless, I think Richard Ansell hit on the main issue. As is usually the case in business, the market will ultimately decide which style predominates the industry based on demand.

I agree.

I happen to think that the Alban/Minden style is lovely, and that Mr Ansell obviously has talent in spades, but this style has a very, very significant drawback as far as I'm concerned – it doesn't (currently) match with anything else out there. What's available in this style is currently limited to the excellent Minden SYW figures and the very lovely (albeit limited) range of Napoleonics from Alban. If there's somebody else, I'm not aware of them. (I'm not counting the limited figures from the TFL boys as they're not really a "range", in fairness).

This therefore limits my choices of a project in this style to the SYW and certain aspects of Napoleonic warfare.

Based on my readings of the Minden blog and posts on this and other fora, it is my understanding that I have no guarantee that my custom would in fact be accepted by Minden Miniatures. It is, of course, absolutely Mr Hammond's right to do business as he chooses and it is far from my place to tell him what he ought to be doing, but it does make me hesitate a bit when planning the project if I have to negotiate a fairly big hurdle before being able to spend any money. Minden therefore go in the "maybe someday – if I can actually get the figures" stack.

Alban have British rifles, some British and French lights and some line infantry for the British and French. No cavalry or artillery as yet. The Austrian range is certainly a bit broader (there are some very nice hussars), but is still a bit limited. Even a skirmish project using their figures makes me hesitate a bit as there are not yet any Spanish, French dragoons, civilians etc. which (according to my copy of "The Complete Fondler") I'd need if I were building a "Sharp Practice" setup. Alban also go in the "maybe someday – if I can actually get the figures" pile. For the time being, anyway.

In the meantime, other companies are releasing products that meet the needs of my projects. I can think of half a dozen manufacturers that I could turn to right this minute and get what I need for say, a large Peninsular War skirmish, including things like casualties, carts and civilians.

I think it's a scenario similar to the above that's facing many potential customers, and by extension, many manufacturers. This is a bit of a chicken and egg/ vicious cycle situation – the market for the figures is limited because there aren't enough of them out there, and there aren't enough figures in that style out there because manufacturers are reluctant to depart from established, stylistically different lines which are selling and "fit better" with figures from other companies.

Mr Ansell is certainly in an invidious position here. I very much hope that the outlook becomes brighter for him.

I think that the market has already spoken. A good sculptor is producing stuff that only a minority want to buy, because to people like me the results look 'forced'. The market does not follow sculptors. It follows full, appealing ranges (with suitable opponents) in a style that at least 80% of purchasers definitely like. Foundry have proven that even price is not an obstacle when the other factors are present. (But still I bet they don't sell many SYW French!)

The market has spoken. Move to 15mm where AB miniatures show that some people still care about anatomy on the wargames table ;-)

Alas… for all intents & purposes AB is now a dead line with Tony Barton more or less being finished with small-scale scuplts due to health reasons. He still releases a few specialty packs once in a while but that's about it from the sounds of it.

I'm hopeful that we're seeing the start of a new generation of 15mm manufacturers from the likes of Campaign Game Miniatures, Eureka's new offerings and Blue Moon among others.

Ditto bird hit it on the head with his first post and tank distortion. It's change. Change is bad. OoOoOoh…

28mm figures have a certain style to them and these don't have that style or evoke the *art* in the sculpture.

What!? Evoke the *art*? What does that mean? Richard's sculpts aren't 'art' because a bit of care, effort, and realism went into them? With that kind of reasoning, the best way to paint your minis would be to flick Pollock-style paint splatters at 'em.

Someone like Mark Copplestone is invoking so much character into their work to create a piece of art for the game table.

Mark Copplestone might be a name, but it's a name from 15-20 years ago, and the style goes with it. I could be here all day, listing all that's old and creaky about the style, but the most 'character' in it is from dressing the minis in different clothes…

I don't mind what minis you game with; I'm not putting anyone in an armlock. But some of the reasons given here why 'chunky and misshapen' are better are just plain wacky; and an excellent sculptor is being hobbled by it.

-----
Warren B.
minisculpture.co.uk

Put me down for the slender, more anatomically correct figures. The others are just too cartoonish for my taste.

Having said that…there's obviously a big market for them, and there are some painters who can really make 'em look good.
I enjoy good painting no matter what type figure.

Speaking as a Napoleonic guy, I like Mr. Ansell's new style. The main problem I see is that his figures for TAG/Alban/Radetzky are so different from almost every other range out there that you're pretty much forced into going with those ranges, and there aren't enough figures out there in any of those ranges to put together a full army for any nationality. This is problematic for any 28mm gamer looking to put together a new army.

The more people buy in to the proportionate ranges the more propensity there is for these small companies to spend out on product development and the wheel turns faster.

The fact remains that big players like the Perry's who are bankrolled by their involvement with Games workshop own the market place.

Buyers need to vote with their feet by investing in new entrants ranges whilst being safe in the knowledge that these companies are reinvesting in to their product development. Alban are one such company with this vision.

The more they sell, the quicker they can reinvest and so the range grows and eventually hits a critical mass whereby full scale games are no longer a pipe dream.

Obviously the quicker the reinvestment the more work for great sculptors such as Richard Ansell.

I like both styles but leaning towards the 'less realistic' style.
But frankly I hope both styles will remain available.
However, and I hasten to point out that this is a purely personal opinion, I bought a few blister each of the new RifRaf figures Richard made for that company.
I'll paint them as a small stand alone army. but if they would have been compatible with the Anglian figures I already have I would probably (certainly) have bought hundreds.

i'm in the "don't care for em'" column. Bolt Action Finns and Early War Soviets were a terrible disappointment. The "pin" heads – way too small for the body are the worst bit. They just have a real spindly look to them that is strange…almost like large 20mm.

What a chaotic hobby this is! Maybe it really can't be anything else due to its nature and the mind boggling mix of egos and viewpoints. Unless you have govt. printing press, don't try to make ANY money from a potential clientele as diverse as this!!

"The "pin" heads – way too small for the body are the worst bit."

I found this statement so unlikely I had to search for some pictures on the web, here is the result:

picture

Please note the Bolt Action figure's head is, compared to reality, if anything too large. The example is obviously a German, the Bolt action Soviets and Finns had even larger heads and I wanted to make the best case for your comment.

You aren't by any chance a big Charles Shultz fan?

Tom, that's a very interesting comparison photo!

What really stands out to my eyes is the difference between the length of the legs on the painted figure compared to the two other photos.

To me,the figure's legs are perhaps about half as long as they should be if you look at the distance from the top of the gaiter/legging to where the leg meets the bottom edge of the tunic. (Perhaps the tunic on the figure is a bit too long and the upper leg is a bit too short, so this compounds the distortion?)