"Austrian Grenadiers" Topic

I'm in the process of starting a Austrian 25mm army. I recently played a game with a member in our group with a large Austrian army. He painted his Grenadier battalion's with a mix of different companies. Would I be completely wrong in painting my battalions and regiments with the same collar/cuff and facing color? Or would it be more accurate to make mixed battalions?
On a side note, why did the Austrians do this. It doesn't make much sense to me to break up regiments that have trained together to form these mixed grenadier units.
I have some Osprey books coming in the mail, but I cannot wait. I'm itching to get painting. Thanks in advance.

The Austrian grenadier battalions were formed at the beginning of campaigns from whatever was available with the army. The different facing colors would have been the norm but you could have two or more of the six companies per battalion with the same coloring. There were no Austrian grenadier regiments. The converged battalions were grouped into brigades and divisions as part of a reserve corps. The grenadiers would not have any flags as they would stay with the infantry regiments. Both the German and Hungarian regiments would have their grenadiers stripped out and placed into this reserve corps. Although I'm not totally sure, but I think that you might have one or two battalions with both German and Hungarian companies, but I think that would be rare.

Since the Austrians did not have a guard component (like the French or Prussians) or standing grenadier regiments (like the Russians), they would converge their regimental grenadier companies into these "reserve" formations. This was common practice since the early 1700s by most, if not all, European armies. Although the British did not do it so much during the Napoleonic Wars, they did during the American Revolution and the Seven Years War. The Prussians and Russians converged their grenadiers during the Napoleonic Wars. During the Seven Years War, many of the Prussian grenadier companies were converged together in the same pairs for almost the entire war. Even with a guard component, the French converged their elite companies from the depot battalions on several occasions, the most well known being the 1805 Ulm-Austerlitz Campaign.

Good gaming,

Jim

Like the good Colonel says – this was standard Austrian tactical doctrine, in large part to create some of the elite units other armies had as standing parts of their armies – since the grenadiers served the entire campaign brigaded together and were, after all, usually well trained and often veterans, they seemed to work well together

My Austrian army has the converged grenadier units – as I am not the most ambitious painter (and as they are 6mm) I paint half the unit in one facing colour, half in another

Grenadiers converged battalions would indeed be of many facing colours (3, sometimes 2), since they were made-up of the Grenadiers compagnies of their parent regiments. As Jim mentionned, the practice was to group 'German' and 'Hungarian' grenadiers separately if possible.

So you would be wrong to have a Grenadier battalion with only one facing colour.

Grenadier battalions did have flags however (both Haythornthwaite and Hollins mention it). Usually a single Ordinarfahne (the 'yellow flag') As per Dave Hollins 'In 1805, the Grenadiers were formed up as the first battalion of each regt, but were still usually massed into a reserve. In 1806, they reverted to their old battalion arrangement. **Only in 1805 did they carry their regt Leibfahne – otherwise it was a single spare Ordinarfahne.**'

Here is a list of the Grenadier battalions in 1809. Parent regiments of Grenadier Battalions are shown besides the number of men. I've also included the facing colours for each battalions.

3rd Division – FML Lindenau

§ Grenadier Battalion Leiningden (742): 25/35/54 – sea green, apple green, crab red

§ Grenadier Battalion Portner (713): 44/46 – madder red, dark blue

§ Grenadier Battalion Georgy (745): 16/26/27- violet, parrot green, emperor yellow,

§ Grenadier Battalion Wieniasky (837): 11/11/47 – pink, pink, steel green,

§ Grenadier Battalion Demontant (778):13/40/43 – grass green, carmine, sulphur yellow

§ Grenadier Battalion Legrand (744): 9/55/56 – apple green, pale blue, steel green

§ Grenadier Battalion Hohenlohe (708): 1/29/38 – pompadour (dark red), pale blue, rose pink

§ Grenadier Battalion Hahn (523): 2/33/39 – emperor yellow, dark blue, carmine

4rd Division – FML d'Aspre

§ Grenadier Battalion Brzeczinski (610): 24/30/41- dark blue, light pike grey, sulphur yellow

§ Grenadier Battalion Puteany (682): 14/45/59 – black, poppy red, orange-yellow

§ Grenadier Battalion Scovaud (665): 4/49/63 – sky blue, light pike grey, light brown

§ Grenadier Battalion Scharlach (706): 31/32/51 – emperor yellow, light blue, dark blue (Violet)

§ Grenadier Battalion Mayblόmel (727): 8/22/60 – poppy red, emperor yellow, steel green

§ Grenadier Battalion Oklopsia(659): 12/20/23 – dark brown, crab red, poppy red

§ Grenadier Battalion Bissigen (700): 3/50/58 – sky blue, violet, black

§ Grenadier Battalion Kirchenbetter (713): 34/37/48 – madder red, poppy red, steel green

You can look at my website for some help on the Austrian army (my favourite).

Iannick
Clash of Empires link

Thank you all for the very informative information.

Lannick, I very much enjoy your site. Loads of good stuff on there.

According to Bowden, Mack tried a different scheme in 1805:

"Mack sought to enhance regimental espirit do corps while increasing the number of grenadier battalions threefold by keeping the grenadiers an integral part of each battalion. In order to accomplish this, the grenadiers would have to form an entire battalion. Thus, two companies of fusiliers from each regiment – designated as 'young' grenadiers – were merged with the 'old' two companies to form a new grenadier battalion," Scott Bowden, "Napoleon and Austerlitz," p. 125.

Bowden goes on to note that the combat performance was so poor that Archduke Charles reverted the army to the traditional scheme in 1806.

So, this gives you something to do with mis-painted grenadiers if you don't want to paint over the facing color, unless, like me, you buy some off e-bay with what turned out to be black facings, corresponding to the Garrison Regiment. Unfortunately, that regiment had no grenadiers! If anyone asks, I just look them in the eye and tell them it's a very, very dark blue.

Rick

Speaking of ebay, I did get some grenadiers from there. Some of them have overcoats slung over the shoulder Russian/Prussian style. They have leggings so I'm assuming that they are not Hungarian. Am I going to get made fun of for having them in my Grenadier units?

why should you? with leggings you mean gaiters?

Great link Charles. not seen that before.

many thanks

christot & jpwalker, thanks!

jpwalker

Are these the guys you talk about? If so, they are Hungarian Grenadiers :
link

Doh, those are the guys. I now have 15 Austrians and 14 Hungarians. Not quite enough to make a unit (I'm running blocks of 24). Man I need to learn to become a better e-bayer.

Yes Austrian Grenadier battalions had companies from 2 or 3 different regiments but when representing 600-800 men with 24 miniature figures is it really more correct if there are 3 lots of 8 with different facings than all 24 with the same?