"Falklands 2 in the making?" Topic

I was involved in one particularly weird discusion some years ago where a Argintinian made the claim that all the bloodshed was the british fault, as they should have just surrendered when they where attacked by a clearly superior force, and that by fighting back they screwed everthing up.

I largely stayed out of the rights and wrongs of who really owns the darned place. But I did get in over the idea that people who are attacked are not supposed to shoot back. And that the thought that royal marines, and British Infantry are not going to shoot back was pure fantasy. Even a very light look at thier history should show that just giving up was not something they have much of a reputation of doing, and counting on it was obviously a major mistake.

We never did come to much accord on the subject, and as they others seemed perfectly willing to go back and forth until the thread go lock, or they all died of old age, I eventualy dropped out. I dont mind long arguements, but about the third time over the same ground it loses its appeal.

Yes there is quite a bit of propaganda out there. I tried to stay out of them and just relied on the facts. Though that seemed to make them even more angry LOL. My favorite was that the Ghurkas were sent in high on drugs and alcohol to slit throats and mutilate bodies LOL. Among others. Its good to hear both sides of the story though with out all the hate and anger. Robert

Dear Sirs, many thanks for your kindly words.

Mr. Badger 22, I supouse that when you had your discusion, it wasn't with a veteran of that conflict.

I was there and can confirm that up to the first day when the British bombardement us, more than 80% of the troops never imagine that war was a real thing…

But instead of the ignorance of history, you had to take note that we were mostly conscripts with ages from 17 to 19.
It was not my case.
I was an "old veteran" of 23 with some experience in arms (hunter since 12 with my grandpas), survival campaments (I always love outdoors) and some experience in the war against the guerrilla.
But I never was in a first line in a traditional War before Malvinas.

When the British came, no doubt that we were waiting them.
There are false histories those which said that we were waiting to surrender.
Only the "great" rank officers were thinking of that.
While they took their hot meal, shawers and good blender wiskey at the houses of Port Argentine, we were at the open for weeks without suply, water, food, tents and even ammo.

Those officers from the rank up to Captain, were mostly "criminals" and to them belonge the fault to the dead on the conflict. Not only those who were in the Goberment at home. And not because they had to surrender before the British Army arrived. They were "criminals" because they send their poor trained and armed conscripts to dead while they seat conformtable watching TV at the rear!.

About the British performance, I had not any surprise.
They performe as well as they history said to us.
I think that the real "surprise" was for them (as I had talked then with many of ex british veterans) because of our resistance without commands, logistic, good weapons, and in trenches as WW1.!

As said SO well one of the British Generals.

"It was no picnic there".

the only thing that during those long years boder me is the amount of casualties from both sides.
Unfortunally the "official archives" from the British side (here were burned!) could be not readed from many years ago.
I know that the casualties from both sides were much more than the people know.

But this is not important now.

Thanks again for your words.
Amicalement
Armand

Raul Alberto, one of the people I talk to a lot about it is a british Para who was at goose Green and he did not have bad words about the troops on the ground. Rather the contrary, he thought they did very well considering the position they where left in.

I suspect most times that is true. the soldiers that fought on the ground are a lot less rabid about it than those who never got there or heard a shot fired for real. I am also very aware of soldiers caught in situyations gnerated by a goverment that doesnt have the best motives for what is going on.

Many thanks again Mr. Owen.

You are right. The "motivation" for us was to defend and recuperate part of our country.
I do not said that with the pourpouse to atack the british aspirations, but I cannot agree with them.
Only looking on a map, you can understand why.

Our motivation was correct, but those of the criminals in the military goberment were to sustain their own business.
They are all traitors to our fatherland because whith their need for power, money and luxuries destroyed our once a time proud Army.
When the time came to the "professionals" (those who only think in growing up their stomachs eatean as sibarites) they didn't know how to act. They forget how to did that.

The good surprise for my country was that we, mere civilians with only a few weeks on training (on my training I had shoot only three bullets!) moslty running and serving the NCO or Officers as slaves, with tears on our eyes because of the cold and the terrible afraid, never run with the first shot- We fought untill we spend our ammo or mostly of our friends lied dead or wounded.
And without Command!.
If you see the list of the casualties, there are not officers up from the rank of Lieutenant or Sublieutenant.
The British lost one Lt.Cor at Goose Green.

I had to made an special mention to two units that performed as "veterans". One was our artillery, all teenagers from the North or our Country (jungle zone!) and the other the Marines Infantry, that had a training much more accurate that the Army. But they were young people too.
Their CC were excelent. But we are talking about less than the 10% of the troops on Malvinas.
About our Commandos… well I was with them in one ocation and the officers performed well, but half of the Nco or "old" soldiers… in any Army would took them more than to a kitchen!.

Another ridiculous example.
One day one Company was formed because it had just arrived from the Continent a few Blowpipes.
the Captain at command ask for the ranks.
Any of you know how to shoot these weapon?
As any soldier even know what was that, the NCO began to shout and atack the poor soldiers because of their "ignorance" and bad moral (!!).
Well, in some moment, one of the worst Sargents I had seen (a really BAD guy) took the weapon, put it on his shoulder and shout:

"Rascals!. I will show you how the Argentine Army can used ANY weapon…".
The beast Sargent shoot the blowpipe and the misil scape from HIS BACK and explote a little construcction near a few meters.
The Sargent had put the blowpipe at the WRONG SIDE!
Nobody died by miracle.
The Captain, pale as a ghost, said with a very low voice…
"Well, soldiers… you had to train more with the blowpipe.

I was there.
I saw that and much more stupidity of the military and I remember now when I think… "My Godness. We all are going to died here!"
Well, mostly of my unit did.

Sorry for so much explanations.
Amicalement
Armand

Explinations are good. What needs doing is more accounts like yours need to be gotten together and published, and not just in Argentina.

I cant even to begin to discribe the discust I feel at such non-proffeasional NCOs. I expect, probably unfairly, for some officers to be screw ups, but such conduct from NCOs offends me deeply.

Dear Owen, I can assure you that mostly of the NCO on that days were mere animals with uniforms.

Since they "become" goberment at 1955 with the first big atack to democracy, they change to be bloody beast searching to rob, murder and violated the indefence civil population.
Of course, those of the "other" side called "guerrilleros" were part of the fault too!.
Moslty of them finished their carriers as informants of the own Army they fought.

We had a tragic history on my country.
I supouse that it is our fault too, but sometimes… I beleived in bad luck too!.
If you had the ocation to visit us… you would understand what I'm saying.
People here are great. Generous, hard workers, intelligent, with a great social concience, etc.
Military-Politics… a real hell…

Amicalement
Armand

Raul I enjoyed your posts thank you.

Mr. Dragon Gunner, many thanks for your kindly words.

At least, is a different "vision" of our World history.

Many thanks again.
At your service.
Armand

The latest Proceedings had an article on the saber rattling going on down there. There wasn't a whole lot of force structure info or plans, it was about the politics of the situation.

An irony of the aftermath of the first conflict was that the Thatcher government not long after revoked the right of citizens of the Commonwealth to residency in Britain. What this meant was that the people on the Falklands Islands, who obviously desired to remain "Britain," and for whom Britain went to war, could not legally move to and reside in Britain. This has been the case for more than 25 years. Makes you remember that posturing wasn't limited to the Argies.

An irony of the aftermath of the first conflict was that the Thatcher government not long after revoked the right of citizens of the Commonwealth to residency in Britain. What this meant was that the people on the Falklands Islands, who obviously desired to remain "Britain," and for whom Britain went to war, could not legally move to and reside in Britain. This has been the case for more than 25 years. Makes you remember that posturing wasn't limited to the Argies.

Errrr, no. The 1983 British Nationality (Falklands Islands) Act gave the Islanders full citizenship, removing the anomally of the 1981 Act which restricted residency of those in British territories. As it is the 1962 and 1971 Acts had largely removed the right of abode for all Commonwealth citizens anyway. Try not to confuse Commonwealth citizens and citizens in British territories as there were clear legal distinctions for the purposes of immigration.

Falklanders are free to live in the UK and have been able to since 1983.

I stand corrected. I was living in the UK as a resident in 1981 when the first Act was passed but had returned home by 1983.