"WSS: status of Bavarian infantry regiments" Topic

I was wondering besides the obvious guards status for the Leibreigiment and the Kurprinzregiment, if any of the other line infantry regiments had some sort of elite status after their experience in fighting the Turks before the WSS.

I'll give the names of these line regiments: Karthausen, Massey, Tattenbach, Spilberg, D'Ocfort, Chevalier de Bavaire.

Anybody some suggestions?

I doubt it. Nothing I have read would indicate such a thing, maybe converged grenadiers (if they ever did that). According to Sapherson(?) the Chevalier de Bavaire was a unit of emigres and what-not raised late in the war after Bavaria was occupied by the Austrians and so not very good.

Bavarian grenadiers were all in a single battalion within the Leibregiment.

The only distinction I would give the other Bavarian infantry was whether or not it existed prior to the WSS and had some prior experience (i.e., being "veteran" as opposed to "green")

I wouldn't necessarily call Kurprinz a guards regiment, either.

Well Malbrook, I don't know that much of the Bavarian army. Why would Kurprinz not be guards?

IIRC, there was a second battalion of grenadiers formed during the WSS under a French officer (post Blenheim?) and known as "the red grenadiers".

The Leib/Kurprinz regiments were just line infantry corps that happened to have royal personages as inhaber/chef; when a numbering system was introduced later, they became the 1st and 2nd Line Infantry regiments. I don't think they were ever "household" troops in the way that the British or French Foot Guards were, but more like the 1st "Kaiser Franz" regiment of the Austrian army in Napoleonic times. The Bavarians did have household troops – the Hartschiere (Archers) were one example – but I think they remained with the King, so they only served in the field when he did.

Those red grenadiers were all used up by the time of Blenheim. IIRC, they were destroyed at the Schellenburg.

I'm a bit of a softy and let any "leibregiment" take the status of guards for training/morale purposes if there aren't any other guard units in the army.

Thanks for all the comments so far guys!

I think that within the light of the rules we play (Beneath the Lily Banners) that what I found there on page 6 about troops classification, that I will give the household cavalry and the senior infantry regiments the status of 'elite'.

Even if another ruleset like Lace Wars does indeed creit the bavarians to having some 'guard' troops. But perhaps in the comparison to the Frenh army, such bavarians were still a grade lower.

IIRC, there was a second battalion of grenadiers formed during the WSS under a French officer (post Blenheim?) and known as "the red grenadiers".

The rank and file were French too. Late in 1702 …

M. de la Colonie, a French dragoon officer, was seconded for service with the Bavarian army to organise the regiment formed from roving French soldiers and deserters of the same nation from the Imperial service.

The story of this interesting unit is told in his "Chronicles of an Old Campaigner". It's available from the Internet Archive here – link
PDF link

de Ricous … took the opportunity to raise a regiment of Frenchmen in the centre of Bavaria. After the Peace of Ryswick the King had made so great a reduction of his army that numbers of discharged soldiers left France for other kingdoms where wars still lingered. Some betook themselves to the Elector of Brandenburg, others joined the forces of the Emperor then attacked by the Turk; but these unfortunates, driven from their country by necessity, no sooner learnt that there was an ambassador from their King in Bavaria who gave passports back to France by way of Switzerland, than desire to see their country again and renew their service in its ranks brought them in numbers to Munich.

M. de Ricous … proposed to the Elector that a regiment for the King should be raised, with a high rate of pay, so as to induce these wanderers to join as soon as possible, and … that this corps should be called the Prince's Foreign Guard, in the same way that the Swiss form the Foreign Guard of the King of France. … it was to consist of the same establishment as the Bavarian Guard, three battalions, of which the first were grenadiers ; no company should consist of less than one hundred men, and it should do duty as belonging to the Elector until the occasion presented itself for handing it over to the King.

I don't think they ever grew beyond the Grenadier battalion though. In Nov 1702 de la Colonie says …

I had had the honour, before the Elector laid siege to Passau, of being promoted lieutenant-colonel of the regiment of "deserter-refugees," which I have previously referred to. There were as yet but five companies which did duty at this siege under my command, and His Highness had every reason to be satisfied with their behaviour.

Those red grenadiers were all used up by the time of Blenheim. IIRC, they were destroyed at the Schellenburg.

They certainly took a hammering. They were about 700 strong, as de la Colonie tells us "I had five officers and eighty grenadiers killed on the spot" just from the cannonade before Marlborough's assault and "six hundred who were left under my command" for the desperate fighting over the parapet.

Extracts of his eye witness account of the storming of the Schellenberg can be found here, along with an illustrated 25mm refight – link

Afterwards, the wounded de la Colonie swam the Danube and made his way to the small town of Rain, where over the next few days some 400 of his grenadiers regrouped. They spent the next couple of weeks under seige and involved in sorties and night attacks on works. Eventually they capitulated with full honours and marched back to Munich. They were fighting Austrians on the Tyrolese border when news of Blenheim recalled them.

Following the surrender of Bavaria, Prince Eugene himself was instrumental in arranging their safe passage back to France, and de la Colonie went on to lead them into action again at Ramillies, Oudenarde and Malplaquet.