"TALAVERA 1809 (Joe's Pics)" Topic

A Battle Report by Joe Dever

link

Credits:
Game played: 2nd January 2010
Figures, terrain & scenery: Ron Ringrose
Text & photography: Joe Dever
Rules: LSFP Napoleonics (Large Scale Fast Play – our house rules)
High Quality Historical Maps: superiorofficers.com

All comments welcomed

SIMPLY STUNNING!

Thanks for sharing.

Stunning indeed, well done and thanks for sharing!

Very impressive!

I am confused, though. The historical maps show the only built up area to be Talavera itself, yet in the game pictures there appear to be two groups of buildings. I assume one of these represents the town of Talavera but what is the other?

Good to see that my many free lessons in teaching Ringrose how to make terrain and models whilst I lived in Essex have paid off for him in at least some small way, although the painting of the terrain is a little odd. Funny now when I remember him saying to me that I should not have shown him anything, or have written my model making books, as everyone will be making decent terrain.

It would suggest in your credits that it would be good to see some mention for those many painters for the figs, as from memory it was private figure painters who did most of the work and also a little due credit for those firms that produce the large amount of model buildings (Grand Manner) and quite a few of mine, (although don't care about me)seen on the pictures of your many posts.
Posting lots of pictures of lots of figures is ok, but a little credit where credit is due, is always a worthy thing to do, either on this site or your link pages.

Cheers Paul

Mike: We decided to substitute the redoubt at Pajar de Vergara with a town instead (far end of the table, near the figure display shelves). Although not strictly historically accurate, I think you'll agree that it's more aesthetically pleasing. It began the game in French hands (as did the redoubt in the battle).

Paul: Many of the figures (and especially the conversions) were done by Artmaster Studio artmasterstudio.co.uk . Others were purchased by Ron over the past few years from private painters/sellers on eBay, which makes crediting the individual painters more than a little difficult. If you'd care to identify specific items that you made for Ron then please do (quoting the picture references).

Hi Joe,

Cheers for that, but no worries on me, and thanks for the feedback on Artmaster, they do good work and your pictures and info on the games are equally very good.

Cheers Paul

"Although not strictly historically accurate, I think you'll agree that it's more aesthetically pleasing."

Well personally, I prefer historical accuracy to aesthetics, but YMMV.

"We decided to substitute the redoubt at Pajar de Vergara with a town instead (far end of the table, near the figure display shelves)."

Then I am even more confused. If that is the case then the table represents the area between Talavera and Pajar de Vergara, that I believe was historically occupied by the SPANISH rather than the British. If that is true, how then is this the Battle of Talavera?

Joe,

Stunning hardly covers this display but I can't think of any better superlative!

If I may ask:

Who are the gunners in photo 54 and who makes them?

Who makes the British caissons in photos 65 and 125?

Thanks again for sharing this eye boggling event.

Bill.

Mike: I note your valid point regards historical accuracy and I'm sorry to have disappointed you in this regard.

For clarity's sake, here's a warning notice to viewers of the link I've posted:

THE WARGAMES TABLE DEPICTED IN THE BATTLE REPORT PHOTOS IS NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE.

"I note your valid point regards historical accuracy and I'm sorry to have disappointed you in this regard."

No you haven't disappointed me, it looks an absolutely terrific game! I was just having difficulty interpreting the wargames layout against the historical battle map. Thanks for explaining!

The Spanish gunners are Front Rank.

Beautiful table! Nice figures!

Those who look for flaws will be hard pressed to rain on your parade. Just in case carry a brelly :)

Simply stunning, awesome looking game and superb miniatures.

Thats rather special !!! and lots of figs from different manufacturers that seem to go well together

A stunning display!

Simon

just great

Great pics, thanks for sharing – this is inspiring me to get to those 28mm Nappys in the unpainted drawer!

Superb Monsieur Joe!!.

Chapeaux pour vous!!!

Amicalement
Armand

I am jealous of many of the pictures. I wish mine were as good.

Only quibble – and it's easy for me to say – is that I would have understood more of what I was seeing with more captions.

Looks like a tremendous effort on everyone's part.

Gracias,

Glenn

Hi.Whats is the table size and the number of figures on the table for the Battle. thanks Barry

Effing heck, that's some game. I now have a case of wargames room envy.

Weren't these pics posted over six months ago? I've definitely seen them many times before (I'll recognise those polos anywhere).

Lord Hill: All of the pictures on this thread were taken on 2nd January 2010 and have not appeared before, so I think you may be confusing them with another Napoleonic game at Ron's place on a similar (but different) table.

I've now posted an index to all of my photo archives which can be accessed here:

TMP link

Happy viewing!

Impressive…Thanks for sharing!

Very nice looking, but if I can get serious for a moment…

When are we going to get some photos of the shelves full of figures? Tables are fun, but sometimes a few nice photos of shelf after shelf of toy soldier is equally fun!:)

Good stuff!

Stunning! Thanks for sharing those.

Lord Ashram: Your comment is noted. Next time we play a game at Ron's Wargames Cabin, I'll make a point of taking a few pics of his figure shelves. I'm sure you'll be interested to see what he keeps under the gaming table as well! Meanwhile, here's a link to a 'behind the scene' batch of pics I took last year:

link

Sounds good Joe! Heck, I'm even curious about the collection of hats and shakos you have up there!:D

Can't wait for the update… I love pictures of shelves full of troops, and those certainly look like doozies!

Wow, I think that set up wins the award for "best wargames venue in the world". Imagine having a special purpose built house for your gaming and your own workshop area. I'm impressed.

Dave looks particurly wasted for some reason, did he have the shirt on every day since the last game I wonder?

Very tasty indeed!!

hussarbob1746.webs.com

Hello Joe!

An incredable piece of work. How long did it take to put it all together? What happens to all the terrain pieces after the game? Must be very difficult to store? How long does he leave it up for?

Best regards,

Glenn

I will keep this simple for you Joe.

I made a huge Waterloo layout for Robert Browning and I won't here go into how I was ripped off in doing so, that's for another day. He did do some of the donkey work as he wanted to put a game on with it, but in no way sculptured ,painted or did anything creative towards it.

In this hobby as in life, if you want to get known you get off your back sides and do some work. What you do not do is take credit for other peoples hard work and skills in a feeble effort to get some attention.

You have posted on the Wargames Society website (and possibly other) that Ron Ringrose made this Waterloo terrain. This huge layout has received a lot of aclaim, and so i ask why would you do that other than in a dishonest way to give credit to Ringrose.

You know I made it so please do not claim you did not know.

You have also suggested on this site that other terrain layouts, including the Waterloo terrain was made by either Robert Browning and Ron Ringrose, as well as given credit for painted figures to others and not Bob Kiff.

I want no association with either of Browning or Ringrose, but strongly object to the dishonest credit given to them to massage their fragile ego's.

Unless all credits posted here and elsewhere are not fully changed to reflect the truth, I will take legal action against yourself and those who have told you to do so.

Cheers Paul Darnell

To Paul Darnell (HistoryInc)

Contrary to your false assertions, you were credited for your work on the Waterloo terrain boards. Here's the TMP link.

TMP link

The credit clarification appears in entry no.28.

I have never claimed that the Waterloo terrain was "made by either Robert Browning and Ron Ringrose". Here's the Waterloo display link.

link

As everyone can see, the credit (pic 002) says ‘from the collections of…' No reasonable person would take this statement to mean that the persons listed therein had made the terrain or sculpted the figures.

"This huge layout has received a lot of aclaim, and so i ask why would you do that other than in a dishonest way to give credit to Ringrose.You know I made it so please do not claim you did not know."

Your assertion is incorrect. I refer you to the link at the start of this reply.

"You have also suggested on this site that other terrain layouts, including the Waterloo terrain was made by either Robert Browning and Ron Ringrose."

The Waterloo terrain aside (as I have already addressed this issue), you insinuate that either Mr Browning or Mr Ringrose have not constructed the terrain featured in the several pictorial battle reports I have posted on TMP over the past couple of years. This is false. Apart from the Waterloo display table, which was constructed by you with Robert Browning's assistance, all of the other terrain boards featured in the reports have been constructed by Ron Ringrose. Ron does not possess any scenery boards that were made by you.

As for me giving ‘credit for painted figures to others and not Bob Kiff', I can assure you that there was no intention to deceive on my part in this regard. I would be more than happy to give credit to Mr Kiff where it is due. Perhaps you can provide me with contact information?

"Unless all credits posted here and elsewhere are not fully changed to reflect the truth, I will take legal action against yourself and those who have told you to do so."

It really is unfortunate that you feel the need to threaten me in print with legal action for infractions that exists only in your mind. I have addressed all of your accusations and provided evidence that they are false.

Please note that I do not profit personally from the photo reports I upload to TMP and the Wargames Society websites. A great deal of work and effort goes into preparing these features which are solely for the benefit of the wargaming public. My aim is to inspire, not to deceive. These reports are my way of giving something back to the hobby I have enjoyed since childhood.

Perhaps you would be well advised to adopt a similar attitude, rather than continually whine here on TMP about imagined snubs and slights.

For the record, the terrain boards featured in the Talavera battle report were constructed by Ron & Sue Ringrose.

Are the Waterloo terrain boards made from big chips?

I think there is a slate loose on Mr Darnell's roof.

link

The Link above takes you to Wargames Society website where full credit is given to Ron Ringrose as having sculptured the Waterloo layout which I made. It does not state owned by as its not his, but sculptured.

You may be right Charla, but this is not about getting any credit as I have made thousands of models if I went around demanding a credit for every model which I see I would spend all day looking.

Its about somebody else claiming to have made a layout which thousands of other people will see. That to me is rather a big difference.

I take all on board which has been said and sorry to have caused offence to those on TMP. All I ask that if posts which as you say Joe take you a long time to produce, are accurate.

I don't want credits as its of no interest what anyone does with my models or terrain once they have them from me, but Joe just get your credits right and don't go helping anyone in getting credit who does not deserve it, such as is still on the above link.

There is a whole lot more to this than you Joe or anyone else here on TMP knows about, apart from Ron Ringrose and Robert Browning/

Cheers Paul

I don't know what you're all talking about, I made the terrain in these pics.

No, I'M Spartacus…(etc etc)

Were seven identical posts across the Wargames Society's forum really needed to express your indignation?