"Avatar Vehicles - Good or Bad?" Topic

Alright, nothing in particular to talk about today but I thought I'd start a little discussion about peoples' initial impressions of the vehicles being shown for the upcoming Avatar movie.

I think that overall the vehicles show the same cool Cameron asthetic we have seen in other movies he's done. For the most part I think they are pretty solid designs. Even the AMP Suit, though it annoyed me at first, has very few things that I can really complain about.

Thoughts,

-Eli

These?

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From the game:
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picture

avatartrailer.com

Dan

The Flyers look a lot like some of the Sci-Fi Gunships I have at home, for 6mm gaming.

I like them.

I don't know about the rest of the world but the toys are in McDonald's Happy set (kids meal) are from Avatar:
link
The walker/mech is about 10cm tall.

I don't see them on the US site:

happymeal.com/en_US/#toys

Dan

Haha! Guess who's going to get a Happy Meal! Unfortunately the flyers look they were a special for one day only.

I think the helicopter thingies look very useable as a near future vehicle -- a cross between a conventional helicopter and an Osprey. Obviously it depends on the size.

I don't like the Amp suit but that's just me -- I'm sure it would work for a lot of games.

The Grinder vehicle would probably need some adaptation or perhaps it could be cut up for parts.

The problem with all three toys is they are too expensive.

With a bit of luck the price will go right down next year.

The designs are great… they look plausible, functional and deadly.

The problem I have is that a 1 1/2 ton lizardy thing can shred a megaton construct, no doubt designed to repel advanced ballistics, without so much as a scratch or bruise. I would think an Abrams vs a Circus Elephant contest would not be so close. But then again… if I could guess at the message of this film having only seen the previews…..

-Technology is bad. Cultures with a technology advantage only use it only to mistreat, take advantage of, rape and pilliage lesser technologically advanced cultures.
-Armies are misguided bad things controlled and directed by bad people.
-Simple harmony with nature is good while technology blinds us, makes us mean, inhuman and insensitive.

Can't wait to see the movie in the hopes it proves me wrong.

Don't think it will.

The designs are… not new…

The Amp suits are rehashes of the ones from SST:Roughnecks or The Matrix

The transports look like something from GI Joe.

Even the heavy transport they show looks like the dropship from ALIENS only bigger/wider.

So I am kinda disappointed. I am not getting that "Ooo Aaaahhh!"

I like the VTOL helo/Osprey hybrids a lot. The rest of the stuff is "meh."

I like them.

And everyone can roll their eyes at the "Green Aesop" story… link …which will no doubt be there, but Cameron isn't anti-technology or anti-military. His heroes are usually soldiers (aliens, terminator, True Lies) and the technology (skynet excepted) is usually benevolent (underwater oil platform in the Abyss). The real bad guys are usually Corporate. "The Company" whatever it's called in Alien and Aliens and Cyberdyne Systems in Terminator.

The real question since it's a Cameron film, is how will he work in a nuclear explosion or bomb in some way?

Aliens: Nuke it from orbit. Only way to be sure.
Terminator: Judgement Day
Abyss: "You have to cut the blue wire with the white stripe, not the green wire with the yellow stripe."
True Lies: "Hey, will these missiles set off those nukes?"

"'The Company' whatever it's called in Alien and Aliens"

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Dan

picture looks like the GI Joe Grasshopper. Straight up copy, in fact.

picture looks like the APE suit from the Roughnecks Chronicles CGI series (Mongoose licensed that for some stuff, but good luck finding one).

*Sigh* … and here I was looking forward to a new, cool scifi story.

"The Company" whatever it's called in Alien and Aliens

That would be Weyland-Yutani. And boy do they make an awesome bad guy.

As for the theme of the thread:

IMO the flyers have potential but the walkers suffer from the need to see the actor's face movie priority techno-logic.

As for the movie:

I suspect it is going to be a case of WYSIWYG. Yes it will be a chromatic explosion of sound you can taste and colors that make your toes tingle. Yes it will have a message of cold hard tech bad and warm green (in this case blue) friendlies good. And yes if you go into the movie thinking it will be anything else except what it advertises then you are inviting the bull into the china shop (although the myth busters showed that to be a bit of a failed saying :)…it will be full of cool colors, lots of seizure inducing light effects, fast fast fast, bang bang bang, and the big meanies are still going to be big meanies at the end of the movie.

Yes Virgina there are monsters that are going to rip open tanks…this suggests science fantasy rather than science fiction, so to enter into a mental/emotional contract that the fantasy element will not be present is a folly…go to the movie and enjoy it for what it promises; not searching for the grail.

I am going into the movie with my eyes open and I will enjoy it for it is…a big movie with a small story…and hoping that the visual amuse-bouche follows through to the plein cours'.

I was bothered by the big windows until I started thinking about how far we have come in plexi materials. Visibility is always an issue in vehicles, especially in lighter vehicles so maybe trading some hard metal for some slightly weaker plastic or ceremic sea-throug hto improve visibility is a good thing.

Anyhow, the response here is about what I expected. Not good, not bad, but pretty typical TMP. I am not overly worried about the plot, to be honest, and sure the designs aren't super new but then again, if you are going for a more "realistic" look you can only really take so many routes.

The designs are definitely Cameron designs, and that I like. Even the aliens and their ecosystem are fun and I like them too.

-Eli

I get a "Battle of Endor" vibe or as one of my friends put it- "Evil US Army vs. Peaceful Tree Hugging Smurf Cats".

Really hope to be wrong on this one.

And by the way, I like the designs.

A friend of mine noted that the movie was following the recent direction of looking like a video game.

I am guilty of watching just about anything with bright colors, aliens, and some nifty wiz-bang…that said, I watched the preview again and I really want to see this movie.

In the end it is my $5 USD (retired military discount :) and I welcome the opportunity to be entertained on many levels.

For $5-10 I do not require a perfect movie experience and it boggles the mind (my mind) that this sort of perfection is expected.

It will hopefully be much more than advertised; if not then I for one will be ok with it.

"If you can't be with the one you love then love the one you're with"

No matter if it is a return to Endor…if you can not find $5-10 worth of entertainment from the experience then perhaps it is a matter of being desensitized and not the qualities of the movie?

So as it has been noted…it will be an air conditioned space (theater), nice and dark, and they will let me pay them to be moderately entertained… :)

I like some of the designs, I like the look of the aliens, and I have high hopes for more than has been shown….

…fingers crossed and hoping for the best

28mm Man,

Thank you for making that statement. I feel that a lot of people are taking movies just way too seriously these days. Movies are there to be enjoyed primarily and anythign else is just icing.

Of course everyone will enjoy different things, but I often find myself wondering if folks are just too caught up in the intellectual aspects of films (even if it's an action film, monster movie, etc) and can't let themselves settle in for a good flick.

I also find it funny that people are worrying about whether big dragon lizards can tear vehicles apart when the real thing to think about is how cool they look doing it. When somebody introduces me to an alien dragon lizard, then I'll listen to the real world practicalities of their use as combat mounts against vehicles.

It's guns. It's VTOLs. It's walkers. It's cool aliens. It's neat alien worlds. The whole movie is just 100% pure gamer porn and really I think it'll be FUN.

Anyhow…back to you Bob…

I second that – 28mm Man is spot on. When I want a serious film, I'll go to my local indie cinema. I'll see Avatar at the multiplex and I'll enjoy it as shallow, forgettable, glorious tosh. The twain cannot ever meet.

My only gripe is that modern/post modern armies have to march shoulder to shoulder firing from the hip. Advanced weapons systems must be closer to rock throwing range to be effective. Not just this flick but anything from 1980 onwards. CGI just makes it worse. Oh yes, everything is a 'Gatling gun' too.
Any fantasy movie's 'message' is better stated with reality-think'Culloden". Yup, maybe a rental. Nowadays spectacular is low budget. Ben-Hur on 5$ a day. I just want some sort of content for a change. Crabby mode off….

Cpt. Beefheart,

I agree with some of your comments there, though I think the few clips presented in the commercials are a bit too little to make a judgement call on.

I will credit Cameron with not showing us all the best parts of the movie in the commercials. I am so tired of getting to the theatre to realize there is nothing left for the movie after TV is done.

I will agree about the annoying gatling gun part, however, the firing from the hip seems appropriate here as these are vehicles with targeting systems so shoulder-firing is a bit of a moot point as the HUD inthe walker will show where the gun is pointing.

-Eli

Basta-I respect your comments EMU but I am angry that fantasy and science fiction gets the short end of the stick. IE. make it dumb and they will come. The Mafia gets more respect than fantasy and science fiction these days in film. It just makes me sad. Such a rich genre and so little respect-both by the money makers and towards the audience. Sad mode out.

I'll agree with you on the general trend of dumbing down scifi and fantasy. But I'll take dumb over none any day. I will also take dumb over gratingly boring as well.

It would be nice if somebody could figure out how to do a smart scifi/fantays movie that wasn't a snore or so full of itself it loses all entertainment value.

-Eli

I disagree as a movie still has to be good big or small.

If the movie is dumb or spastic it is hard to reach the suspension of disbelief required to enjoy it.

Sloppy screenwriting is sloppy screenwriting and it doesn't really deserve to be rewarded. I don't eat tripe so I won't watch it either.

28mmMan loves it so much he's only going to pay half price. That is an endorsement.

The reverse of the question could also be asked is your threshold to low? Does a barrage of poor content movies lowered the bar until it is a crack in the sidewalk for some?

Which of the above attitudes bring about a movie like the oscar winner in Idiocracy?

In Cameron's story the heroes are never military. The military is to rigid to be clever. The common man or every woman is more correct and the hero.

Terminator – Heroine actually kills the Terminator

Alien/Aliens/Alien3 – Woman pilot

True Lies – Spy

Abyss – Working Crew

Dark Angel – Thief

Just got the Happy Meal. The flyer is bang-on for 15mm gaming, at least next to my Old Crow minis.

I am not sure that assuming Cameron will go with the bad military-good aliens trope is a safe assumption. I don't know why but those aliens in Avatar give me the creeps. Battle of Endor? Those guys and gals look far too savage for a similar feel. I think that Cameron may have created an interesting alien race for the story. Mayhaps the environmental stuff will be there, but I have a feeling, that the Avatar aliens are not your pacifist-tree hugging hippies, but mayhaps noble, savages. Will be interesting to see if it takes the Miyazaki path in Princ. Mononoke where both sides of the story have valid points and the end moral is that humans and nature don't really mix well :)

Knight Templarr,

I wouldn't get too lofty there. Considering film is a form of art with the primary point being entertainment, it's really a YMMV situation. What you consider high cinema other may consider absolute self-riteous crap just as my own favs may be trashed by others.

Same goes for tripe. I am pretty sure more people in the world who consider tripe food than do not, so who's right?

If you don't wanna see it, don't. If you do, then go for it. What I don't want to see is people trashing a movie, having seen only the clips. I'm pretty sure we all got that whole book and cover lesson when we were kids.

I know this – Cameron hasn't really let me down for entertainment value so I'm willing to give this one a chance. It looks cool and I like cool.

-Eli

The sequel – Blues are discovered to produce finest cat food in world, District 9 aliens invade! :)

I'd say people take everything. . . especially themselves. . . to seriously these days.

I agree this movie is going to have some crappy "eath good, technology bad" message. But who cares? Its not going to affect my opinion one way or the other. What it will do is give me a couple hours of watching big stompy robots and drop ships. That's the important part.

Do I wish hollywood put out more films that weren't ultra-lib propaganda? Sure. Is it ever going to happen? No. That's fine. Plenty of good books out there too!

So everyone just relax and take it for what its worth!

Fliers – good (look realistic enough to work whilst being sci-fi enough for the role that they play in the film).

Walkers – bad (just not nice…they could have looked much better than some sort of giant action figure vehicle).

Yeah, I have definitely seen that helicopter before. On the plus side, if you want to game the movie, the miniatures already exist.

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Emu2020

I never made the claim for high cinema. I said not dumb or spastic.

While tripe is certainly food then by your criteria you can't be disappointed. Because Avatar is mostly certainly a movie.

Would 28mmMan apply the same logic to Saw part 98 or Halloween 12? I bet he won't because they don't have any aliens.

I am not telling anyone not to like it or see it. But, if it is bad don't tell me it is good. Say, I really liked it.

You can judge lots of books by their cover, like the phone book for instance. Why because the writing is unimportant.

No actually I would not apply the same logic to Saw 98 or Halloween 12…as these are sequels and you know exactly what you are getting into before you see it.

You either watch these or don't, but you know what to expect, no surprises.

Avatar looks to be full of formulas, lots of color bombs, and should be chaotic with effects…sounds like a fun ride, I claim the center seat :)

Sorry if I misquoted you KnightTemplarr.

You do seem to have a rather "my way or the highway" tone to your post.

You tell me not to tell you it's good if it isn't so how then is is alright for you to tell me it is bad?

Anyhow, way off topic now so letting it go.

Vehicles look cool, original or not. Most people who don't like walkers won't like the walkers. People who do like walkers will like them or hate them based on matters of style and preference.

See it or don't see it. Though I'd say reserve your judgements until you do.

-Eli

Yeah, I have definitely seen that helicopter before. On the plus side, if you want to game the movie, the miniatures already exist.

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Ordnance built into the landing gear. Yeah, real smart, Cameron. Looks cool though.

The picture in that post isn't the Cameron vehicle, that an old GI Joe vehicle.

-Eli

Better blue muppet creatures than Ewoks…. ;)

6mm gamers have ready-made stand ins: Exodus Wars' Khazari Valkyrie (currently being remastered) for the VTOL, and DRM's Elohe Raiders for the flying beasts.

Not gonna do it myself. Just sayin'.