"Leviathans' Lieutenant Manual" Topic

The simplified rules for Catalyst Games Lab's boardgame "Leviathans" are downloadable for 2.99$. Leviathans will simulate battles between air warships running on "ether" at the turn of the 20th century, and uses a hex grid.

link

(download links on the linked page )

Thanks foxbat! And now, having paid my hard-earned and downloaded, a thumb-through review:

Catalyst – get your collective heads out of the dark place in the back of your trousers and hire a typographer. Woeful choices of text fonts, unforgivable, basic kerning and line-space errors. First year design students could have blitzed this.

So, not a good start. Let's hope there's something under the hood of this beast capable of redeeming it.

Leviathans works to the VSF idea of sending aloft, essentially, pre-WW1 battlewagons to beat each other up in the heights above. Nothing wrong with that. Apparently, the 'full' version of the game includes altitude rules, but they are absent from the quickstart .pdf. (My $2.99 USD purchase just dropped in value to $2.49.)

This is a hexbased system, with weapons assigned to the usual four firing arcs you'd expect from most unoriginal naval combat systems.
So, on to the beating up – Leviathans requires a player to have a swagload of different polyhedrals, and an absence of colour-blindness. You are going to need everything from D4s to D12s, and all even-numbers between. Unless, of course, you have the exclusive Leviathan dice! (Also not included in this download – value now $2.09)
Taking a look at the ship datacard, you need to work out which die to throw for the weapon firing, (which becomes a different die, depending on range,) plus a die to represent crew, IF there's a crew 'slot' next to the weapon. (Which there sometimes isn't.)

I'm unsure what the designers are indicating by that – do the weapons shoot by themselves, with the crew just giving a helping hand where they can??

Recording damage is simply a case of the usual attack dice total beats target location defense value, and the damaged location is circled. The word flying around on the Leviathan boards was that the locations could be 'punched out' of the datacards to indicate damage, which also meant you could switch guns, crew, and equipment between 'slots' to personalise a vessel, or design an experimental prototype without reams of paperwork, or having to create your own datacards – no indication in the quickstart if this will be the case in the boxed set.

On to the Leviathans themselves – If the miniatures (8 in plastic in the boxed set) live up to the artwork, I'll be pleased, although some of the designs look rather too much like WW1 designs that sprouted wings. Still, they look substantial – no flying lumps of balsa with a couple of funnels sticking out here.

All in all, this looks like it might be fun, but if I'm to be truthful, I am a little displeased. I'm more likely to modify Full Thrust to use with the miniatures, but I admire Catalyst for going hammer and tongs into what might be considered a 'niche' wargaming period.

That is all!

How does it differ from previous entries in the genre such as "Sky Galleons of Mars" or "Aeronefs"?

Maybe some weapons are fixed and are fired by the bridge?

The systems sounds workable does it allow for crew quality?

The figure they have a sample looks great and if it does live up to the art it will be fantastic.

Thanks for doing this!

This looked cool enough I almost dropped $2.99 USD immediately, but I'm a little more discerning these days, There are a lot of rules out there. A new set, even at $3, needs to have an edge over the dozen rules sets I already have that could do this job (Full Thrust, Battlewagons, Ironclads & Etherflyers, Sky Galleons of Mars, any WW1 or pre-Dreadnaught system).

I'd still like to know how the rules handle turning. Also, hit location.

You know what I wish? I wish people introducing new rules systems for any period and any category (RPG, minis, wargame) would say why their rules are better at the core. We have plenty of simple, fast play systems, we have plenty of exciting systems, we have plenty of point-based systems, we have plenty of super-detailed systems, we have plenty of initiative/activation systems. I don't care if your system uses only d6 or not, I don't care if it "works with the miniatures I already have," I don't care if it's simple or fast or whatever. Just tell me how it's different from whatever it's most similar to, and I'll know whether or not it scratches an itch.

I met a guy at con once selling his new fantasy RPG. It looked nice, but I was hardly going to spend any time examining another FRPG so, feeling a little puckish, I politely asked how his game was different from all the others. He told me, I kid you not, what a great deal he got on the printing of the book. It did look very nice, and he did get a very good deal.

Anyway, I'm wondering off topic.

Thanks for this, we're in your debt!

Andrew

PS I'm puzzled that you chose to subtract forty cents from the subjective value because a PDF didn't include dice. I would have thought that an all-or-nothing factor.

Andrew,
Not so much a case of de-valuing the .PDF for not coming with dice, more for the fact that this is yet another game which requires special, exclusive, only-we-make-them dice. Grr. I noticed the same routine with Privateer Press' 'Grind', but I believe those are all D6's, so converting the values into 'pips' on your own dice is no great pain. Leviathans needs D6s and D12s, with the D12s having the same role (pun!) as D4s, D8s, and D10s, through the artifice of some faces having the same value as others. Different colours distinguish which die you must roll, which, of course, means all your datacards must be in full colour. No agony if the miniatures come with their datacard included, (don't know if they will,) but that's a pain if you need to photocopy datacards… off to the colour run-out store we go.

Turning, by the way, is pretty much the standard FASA model in hexgames – a Leviathan must move X hexes forward before it can turn 1 hexside. I'd love to know why. Granted, these things are supposed to be pretty substantial in mass, so I suppose the issue of inertia is what this conveys, but if you've ever watched a blimp going through its paces, you'll know how easy it is for one to turn on the spot. I'd like to have seen that kind of agility in the game.

Damage location is determined by the damage arc – i.e., which of four facings the attack hits – plus a D6 'slot die' which indicates which slot has been attacked. Each slot location has a 'breach number', basically an armour value, which the attack must beat to destroy the slot. If there's an armour slot on the facing, it adds +1 to all the slots' breach numbers on that facing.

As a system, it works, I'll grant you that. I think my biggest gripes with this game are -
1. Woeful typography. The example text in particular is a strain on the eyes.
2. Game mechanics don't 'gel' with the background – feels more like pre-turret ironclads rather than fantastic flying dreadnaughts.

Still, we shall see.

Oh, Knight Templarr (with 2 r's no less!),
Yes, the addition of the crew dice seems to represent crew quality. I imagine you could also represent better crews by stating +1 or +2 bonuses to that die.

Andrew Walters,

If I may, I'd like to address the "different rules" factor from my point of view.

I have written a number of rule sets (for home use, not commercial). None of them deal with this subject so I won't go into details . . . but I would like to address the reasons that I write my own rules.

So why did I write them? Because I didn't find that any of the commercially available rule sets modeled the various conflicts the way that I felt they should be. I felt that certain factors were over-emphasized; others, understated. And sometimes I just wanted things to look or handle differently.

Yes, I agree with you about "how are they different" . . . in fact I usually begin my home rule sets with a brief "Philosophy" section . . . because if you don't find my reasoning meshing with your own, you won't like my rules.

I wish, as you do, that commercial rule sets would do something similar.

-- Jeff

feels more like pre-turret ironclads rather than fantastic flying dreadnaughts.

Or indeed, like Renegade Legion: Leviathan.

Sounds like one or two detail steps up from Aeronef, which may still "win" due to having design rules…

I have actually been following this game for some time.

I love pulp fiction stuff, and anything around it.

Still need to read the rules to see if it worth the buy. And if the minis are pre-painted or not.

I'm still trying to finish painting my WWI navy and some zombies that I have been working on. I'll never get leviathan ships painted.

I am still playing with pewter colored ships in my battle of Jutland game, which is ugly.

Would be helpful if they came pre-painted, which I know is frowned upon by hobbyist. The paint jobs for AT-43 in my opinion are pretty damn good.

So many games, so little time to paint.

damn you real life! damn you!

I absolutely hate the multi-hex ship concept and execution (and hated it in RL: Leviathan). Between that and the movement sequence (same as RL: Leviathan), I wonder if this isn't going to be a streamlined damage resolution version of the old spaceship game, transplanted into a dieselpunk setting.

Hopefully the minis will be available outside of the box set; I can't see myself playing rules using these basic mechanics more than a couple of times before getting bored with them.

MacrossMartin:

Thanks for taking the time go through that. I think you saved me $2.99, though I likely wasn't going to go through with it.

I agree on custom dice, that's why I wondered at subtracting 40 cents instead of zeroing out the whole thing. Custom dice are okay if a) they're part of a boardgame and in not an additional cost, and b) really special so they add to the game in a way ordinary dice could not. The dice in Forumula De, for example, I do not mind.

I don't mind requiring polyhedra, as long as it's for good reason and not too much bother. Not sure that applies here.

Blimps can turn in place because they have two engines with some lateral separation and we have pretty good control over our internal combustion engines – speed up one, slow the other, spin almost in place. Plus, blimps have very low mass and a big cross section from the front, so they don't coast much. A heavily armored flying battleship is going to keep coasting in the direction of it's travel even if you turn it sideways, so I can see it turning slowly. Plus, that makes for a more interesting game, usually.

All that said, I still look forward to the miniatures. I could see playing something like this.

Jeff:

Every set of rules should have a "Philosphy" section or designer's notes or something to explain why it works the way it does. Helps you appreciate the rules more, or doctor them up if you see fit, or decide that they're not for you. That's pretty much what I was thinking of when I described it differently.

Andrew

If the miniatures for this are nice (detailed, hard plastic, NOT pre-painted) then I'll most certainly be interested regardless of the rules… but somehow I am skeptical that they can live up the great artwork.

I paid the $2.99 USD for these rules and from what i've seen then i'll get the boxed set.

I have alot of the Aeronef ships and the rules as well but so far i've had many things on my mind,and so far have not had the time to play the game.
But then the Pre-Dreadnought period has been an interest for me for many years.

Captain Gideon

Turning, by the way, is pretty much the standard FASA model in hexgames – a Leviathan must move X hexes forward before it can turn 1 hexside. I'd love to know why. Granted, these things are supposed to be pretty substantial in mass, so I suppose the issue of inertia is what this conveys, but if you've ever watched a blimp going through its paces, you'll know how easy it is for one to turn on the spot. I'd like to have seen that kind of agility in the game.

As someone who has driven a large naval vessel, turning radius is a serious consideration! 19,000 tons does NOT turn or stop on a dime, even with highly-viscous water to push against. Assuming that the Levs are a bit lighter (say, 10,000 tons for the big boys), you're talking about a turning radius of about 100 feet per knot of speed, and taking a good 50 feet per knot for speed changes.

I'll probably buy the boxed set just for the minis, may actually play a game or three.

I think the turning will also bring more tactics to the game.

Otherwise it will be more like Axis and Allies War at Sea.

Fun game but added my own generic facing rules.

roll full attack on broad side. -3 dice on stern or bow shots.

It will be interesting to see how this game (leviathans)develops.

Still waiting on a few announcements before I commit to buy.

venusboy: I think that would require a little photoetch…

"2. Game mechanics don't 'gel' with the background – feels more like pre-turret ironclads rather than fantastic flying dreadnaughts."

An excellent point, and which has been noticed by fans, and adressed by Catalyst's Randall Bills :

The Commander's Manual is the core rules of the game and builds off the Lieutenant's Manual introducing additional important elements, such as Battleships and their more complex firing arcs, steering gear, screening, torpedoes, ramming, turrets, advanced attack types and repairs.

To tell the truth, a lot more can be found in the FAQ posted on the Leviathans site :

link

I must say I'm excited. Pre-Dreadnought battleships are cool, and the art is incredible. I'm hoping minis won't be prepainted, but whatever the decision, I think I'll get the box. The punch out concept may well look a bit strange, but it hardly impacts on game mechanism, and can be circumvented with a copier, paper and pencils. If this game's quality is anywhere near Battletech's, well, it will be worth every eurocent.

Well I'm one for the mini's to be pre-painted that's less works for me to do.

I still have much of my Aeronef ships that need painting but i've not had the time,so as i said getting a box set with rules and other stuff including the ships then pre-painted would be best all around since you can jump right into games without taking the time to paint the ships.

Captain Gideon

I checked there website today,

some more short stories and the have added a forum.

I emailed catalyst a few months ago and asked them if Leviathas was going to include a design system (after all whats pre-dreadnought if it wasnt rapidly evolving heath robinson designs and one-offs?)

its a shame as I found Wessex's efforts a little bland.

they said nup.

so I said nup.
I'm sticking to Perfidious Albion and fire when ready.
blue sea and adaptible rules.

reading the reviews here I'm glad I did,