"Using FoW for massed armor battles" Topic

I rather like the FoW rules, but being the treadhead I am, I'd like to play armor only games. I wanted to know if it was possible/balanced to do this with FoW? I was thinking balancing by points alone, not using any sort of force org chart, just lots of armor, gun emplacements, etc. (I.E. anything that isn't infantry) lighting eachother up. Would it make for a fun game?

Sure, you could do it with FOW.

Would it make a fun game? That would be a matter of preference. It would not be fun for me, which is why I don't play late war and usually run infantry forces with just a few tanks, if any. But if you think bashing armored formations together is the height of enjoyment, then you'll probably like it.

Rob

Ah, yeah just to be clear, I dont care if its historical. I love history, and I love wargaming, but I try to keep the two distinctly seperate.

And I like my infantry too, but I rather like the idea of a large scale tank battle, figured I would try to find some cheapish 15mm scale armor and have at it with some friends, maybe this weekend.

A few years ago we ran a large Eastern Front game with, I think, 30,000 points per side.

There was TONS of T-34s against a very small collection of Panthers, Tigers, and a mass of early IVs and IIIs.

The Soviet players lost tanks by the buckets because they ran them like Germans instead of Soviets.

Sure you could.
And, the rules are simple enough that a lot of tanks could get blowed up real good real fast.

If you don;t have tanks already look at buying up a bunch of 1/144 die cast on E-bay…

No, no tanks yet, but thanks for the heads up. If you have any other suggestions for tank minis(ideally in store form so I'm not tied down to limited quantities available on ebay) please let me know.

Check these then
link

Not a bad price either.

if you have a PC, you may wish to buy one of the Combat Mission series. You will have beautiful tank battles for a USD 40 or so.

Those point of contact minis are nice, and are a decent price, but the range seems quite limited…. and by limited I mean it consists entirely of 4 different minis that are painted up in about 5 different ways a piece…

As for combat mission, not interested, I prefer something I can feel… I have enough computer games, I want something on the table.

tank battles can be fun. Not my cup of tea, but why not.

You can try it 6mm first so you have 20 models or so for less than 15 bucks. Then see for yourself if it is "fun" before investing more in larger scales.

The most economical way to put lots of 15mm tanks on the table are Old Glory and Gamers Models.
OG are cheap to begin withm, but with a $50 USD Army Card, go for 40% off, and average $4.40 USD each.

Gamers Models are cast in resin, and spray painted. There is some crude pitting, the guns are fragile, and the detail painting can be crude, but they are serviceable on the table and are only $4 USD each.

Hmm… I dunno, for the army card to be worth it I'd have to buy a LOT of stuff… what are old glory's infantry minis like? I assume there would be absolutely no issue using them out of the box(+ painting…) for games of FoW?

I use OG for most of my FOW armies. OGs are cheaper and I do not have the issue of resin breaking off (I found out the hard way with a ISU-152). At that point, no more resin models for me.

OG infantry are a little thinner and smaller than BF grunts. I use them almost exclusively (Except for a few Peter Pigs and a few stands of BF product) for my armies. They paint fairly well and there is a variety of poses. You do get 50 guys in a bag though and 50 LMGs can be a bit much.

Are you able to use them for FOW tourneys? Yes.
Can you post pictures of your OG minis on the BF forums? No.
Will other players reject you for using OGs instead of the "one true mini manufacturer?"
I've never experienced that and honestly, that is THEIR issue.

We use OG for FOW all the time. The infantry are generally pretty good. Send me an email at rob@greathallgames.com for details about ordering if you are interested.

alright, good to know, and thanks for all the help. Just out of curiosity, what does "German Paratrooper Support Weapons and Command" and "German Paratrooper Heavy Weapons" consist of? Also, what exactly does "German Paratrooper in Foxholes" mean? I'm guessing its upper torso only?

I'm going to second the 6mm recommendation. You can play FoW just fine as-is with 6mm tanks, but you'll be able to fit a lot more on the table and it will look a lot better than at 15mm. Much cheaper as well. Or go with the 3mm Odzial Osmy stuff and go nuts!

- Bob

"Just out of curiosity, what does "German Paratrooper Support Weapons and Command" and "German Paratrooper Heavy Weapons" consist of? Also, what exactly does "German Paratrooper in Foxholes" mean? I'm guessing its upper torso only?"

I have bought all those bags in the past and the Command bag had a number of officer models and I think some LMGs on bipods. I seem to recall the Heavy Weapons are mortars and HMGs. The foxhole models are half models packed with metal foxholes for them to be mounted in. They look pretty cool if you mount them on plasticard.

If you want to see any of the Command Decision line then go to Skytrex-- they have pictures of almost everything, although their pack contents may be different to the way OG sells them. skytrex.com

By the way, I just looked and I still have some partial bags of the Para Command and Infantry bags. If you want them I'd be glad to send them to you for the price of postage.

Nazrat, that would be great! Whereabouts are you from?

As for using 6mm/3mm, any links? I'm not really much of a historical gamer (as I said before). I'm largely unfamiliar with most of the "other" manufacturers, as I'm mostly into the scifi/fantasy aspect of gaming. I know GHQ has a very large and diverse stock… how do their prices compare to others?

I'm in NC. I'm sure shipping wouldn't be more than five bucks at the most.

Cahos0xomega wrote:

As for using 6mm/3mm, any links?

For 6mm, GHQ is great: link
CinC gets good comments, though I don't yet own any myself: link
The Oddzial Osmy 3mm can be found in the US at: picoarmor.com/ww2_products.html

Litko makes a variety of base sizes and materials that can be handy: link

- Bob

We have a lot of customers who tell us that they use our miniatures with the FOW rules. Many say that they like the look of the games with the smaller vehicles, they think that it has a more realistic feel. Others like the money saved by playing with our smaller vehicles. Over the years there have been quite a few threads on the GHQ forum, the FOW forum, TMP, and others about people using GHQ minis with FOW rules. The argument can go back and forth about whether the rules are historically accurate, but obviously a lot of people just want a quick tank game. We are OK with that, just use our miniatures!

Thank you for your support,
GHQ

Talk about 'Coming to the Party Late'.

*Chaso0xomega,
Im with you, I love 'armor battles' (just not a die hard historical gamer) Tanks, Tank Destroyers and maybe some ATG's, Im good to go.

IF ya ever get back to this post, I'd love to know what you finally decided.
6mm – 1/285 is a great way to put "tons" of tanks on the table at a low cost, personally I like the way 15mm – 1/100 looks on the table.

Im working on my own version of Bolt Actions 28mm based Tank War using 15's.
Intend to use Plastic Soldier Company's 15mm armor. There sold by the platoon or company. Roughly $30 USD for a platoon of 5.

There is also the Russian company Zvezda. They make some nice 15mm – 1/100 armor WW II and modern.
However they are not as finely detailed as PSC and you get them individually. They range from about $5 USD to $10 USD each, depending on the model.

When I put on strictly tank engagements I use micro or 1/144 scale stuff and a scale of 1" = 25 meters. That way I can set up a battle field that is about 2000 meters and have room for maneuvering and keep them spread out. I'm more concerned about using historic values and tactics than the eye candy.

Besides I'm cheap and don't want to pay more than $6 USD/model.

Wolfhag

Zvezda models can look really good, and this year, they're putting out everything you could ask for for Kursk, etc. I pay about $3.50 USD per tank (about 20 RMB).

I think all-tanks is an important part of FoW. In the one big tournament I played, I encountered two pure armor forces: one was 20 SU-122s, 10 T-34/85s, and some AA guns on trucks (ok so not quite pure armored). The other was Churchills supported by M10s. Both were close games for my mostly-armored Grenadier Guards Armoured Company (Shermans, Fireflies, and Stuarts, plus a motor platoon), with one win and one loss.

So I think FoW makes quite fun games for purely or mostly-armored forces.

As for limited additions of infantry or guns: You could limit their role while keeping their crucial impact by ruling that Infantry are deployed on objectives only, and they can't move, and similarly ruling that all ATGs are deployed in ambush and, again, can't move. Making non-tank units immobile would amount to "speeding up" the clock for an all-tank game.