"HMGS-EAST Board of Directors Announcement (as promised)" Topic

I am amused I am being criticed for my critique which I admit may be considered an insult. Perhaps we should demand the board receive a medal for most excellent performance (the Baltimore Medal). With the exception of a one year return, I resigned from the board in 1994. Until now I kept my opinion to myself and mostly supported the boards' decisions online, including the decision to move to Baltimore. This was despite my knowlege of the mess that is the Baltimore Convention Bureau and the BCC as business concerns.

The next thing I knew, Pete was out as president, rumors were swirling about tens of thousands of dollars owed to the BCC and the hotels and there was and is talk about moving to another venue.

As a founder, quite rightly, I am concerned and as a founder who moved conventions I was/am concerned with the mess which is indefensible that should never had occurred. Even were every "i" dotted on every contract, the board did nothing to keep the membership current or sell both the facility and the city.

What I find amazing is the number of apologists for the mess created by the board one of whom in his ignorance claims the choice of any venue is "haphazzard," which it most assuredly is not. After showing his ignorance he avers I should do my homework. To do what? Everyone on the board who voted for the move then sat on their collective thumbs has responsibility for what occurred.

It is foolish to think the board members should resign in mass. The Society has an election policy and it should be followed. Hopefully, the mess the current board wrought will be addressed with a seriousness it did not bring to the Baltimore decision.

Had I created such a mess, I would bring in a panel of "wise men" consisting of "elders" or "founders" for advice rather than consulting only lawyers and like lawyers their advice would be just that – advice. The board would make the final decision.

My concern now is the board is no more enlighted regarding moving a convention than when it created this mess and in its ignorance it will put its trust in lawyers to make decisions, even though they know no better.

Bob Coggins

kyoteblue – BNN needs a "day counter" for how long Historicon is being held hostage…

Bob,

I know I'll regret posting this, but regardless, I do agree with most if not all of what you say in principal. And you well know I've been opposed to this move from the beginning, with some of the running gun battles I've had with JM becoming the stuff of legend.

However, I am surprised at the tone of your recent posts given:

a. Four of the seven members of the present board were not on the board when these decisions were made. They have only been seated since July (some not that long), so it seems to me they might need a bit more time to fix this, if that is even possible.

b. You know as well as I do that Pete was passionate about this move. Combine that with retirement time on his hands and his military oriented "take charge, get the mission done" personality, I wonder if the previous board had ample opportunity to provide oversight? Being a volunteer board that meets infrequently doesn't help, but I will give you that this point is arguable, eg, if they didn't know, they should have.

c. I've looked back and you were pretty adamant in your support of the board, noting that they were elected to make these decisions, we should let them do it and that they no obligation (nor was it necessarily desirable) to reconsider membership input. While agreeing that competent financial oversight is a reasonable expectation, when I note the above and now your current statement on "the mess that is the BCB and BCC as business concerns . . ."

Well bottom line is that while I understand your disappointment, your vitriol seems a bit perplexing and misplaced to me.

BTW, these are my own personal opinions, and not anything official from HMGS.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.com

Resignations allow the membership decide what reaction the facts (once publicized) warrant.

Okay, and who is going to be publicizing the facts with everyone resigned?

ratisbon
Everyone on the board who voted for the move then sat on their collective thumbs has responsibility for what occurred.

So true.

Responsibility is also shared by those who opposed the move and after the vote picked up their toys and went home. If Secret Squirrel had not seen only smiling supportive faces when he looked at the BoD (assuming that he ever looked at the BoD once he slipped the leash) there might have been a chance of keeping the BoD in the loop before it was too late.

As it is, the "opposition party" walked away. Perhaps this served their pride or dignity. Perhaps they felt that no one was going to listen to them anyway. It did not serve the interest of HMGS at all. Maybe Secret Squirrel was so determined to not be stopped that it wouldn't have made a difference, but they didn't even try. The trust that the members put in them by our votes required them to try.

YY

Bill,

Thanks for your take. Mine would be a bit different. The board betrayed my confidence and support. Vitriol as a result of betrayal of support is entirely apt.

Whatever Pete is/was, from my perspective, he saw the world differently as far back as 10 years ago when he all but demanded the board pay him $2,000 USD to promote his Jodiecon Borodino at Ft. Monroe. His strong passion all to often resulted in unnecessary dramatics which hurt the reputation of the board, such as his personal attack on Fred Haub when he attempted to remove him from the board. In the instance of Baltimore his passion resulted in the difficulties the Society is in today. Pete's passion without reference to reality is why we are where we are today.

You're a good officer and loyal, I can see why you deserved to retire as a Colonel. Thanks for your thoughts, whethe I agree or not, they always help me concentrate my mind. I would gladly serve with you but the Pete I know would never tolerate you or your advice.

Yfu Ytm,

A corporate board aint the US Congress. Once the board makes a decision all members, in favor or not, support it. If a board member cannot he/she either keeps his mouth shut or resigns. What the board member most assuredly does not do is remain on the board in opposition to the board's decision. This occurs hundreds of times a year.

So what's someone sophisticated enough to understand this to do?

Bob Coggins

I have been sitting back reading this topic since it started and find it rather interesting.

Do I agree with everything that was done and the way it was done? No. As to whether or not people should resign or be removed from the board it all depends on what the organization charter or By-laws says about how things should be done.

If there isn't anything about open communication then there really there isn't a responsibility to let anyone know anything (other than being courteous). I don't know what written rules govern the BOD other than what is online in the By-Laws. If that is it then it really doesn't seem to cover much about disclosure.

I really don't care one way or the other who is on the board as long as the conventions happen somewhere. I enjoy the hobby and would like to be able to continue attending the conventions.

The only concern I have now though is where Historicon will be or if it will even happen. I'm not planning on going to Baltimore in 2010 due to the cost but if it stays there then I may reconsider another year.

I just want a chance to play historical games at a con and have fun doing it. Where that may be really doesn't matter as long as I'm not going broke doing it.

Michael

A corporate board aint the US Congress. Once the board makes a decision all members, in favor or not, support it. If a board member cannot he/she either keeps his mouth shut or resigns. What the board member most assuredly does not do is remain on the board in opposition to the board's decision. This occurs hundreds of times a year.

So what's someone sophisticated enough to understand this to do?

Bob Coggins

What to do? Stick around and try to make sure that the dangers are dealt with, for one. I'm not suggesting they should have continued to fight to reverse the decision. I am suggesting that they were not elected to serve only as long as they got their way and they quit. At least I don't remember reading that in any election bios.

And the deeply rooted group think that results when directors with opposing views quit to be replaced with appointees chosen by the majority has, I think, been one of HMGS's main leadership problems.

And this is another:

pvi99th
I really don't care one way or the other who is on the board as long as the conventions happen somewhere. I enjoy the hobby and would like to be able to continue attending the conventions.

80% of the membership thinks this way. Unfortunately, who is on the board has a great deal to do with whether or not you continue to have conventions to attend. We are witnessing what can happen when one BoD member's "passion" can run unchecked by any accountability.

YY

Ratisbon said:

"Even were every "i" dotted on every contract, the board did nothing to keep the membership current or sell both the facility and the city."

So then tell us exactly how your presented the move from Gettysburg, to the Host, to Timonium, in a transparent way to the membership and board? The truth is, you did not. You worked with a few on the board (as it only needed four votes then, like now), some of whom were even opposed to the overall concept of Fall In!, and moved it with zero membership input or review. Zippo. It was a fait accompli, just as now. If I am wrong, then produce the documentation that preceded the moves (plural). I think you'll be looking for quite a while.

Again, the fact is that the there is no formal process on how to move a convention – and IT IS haphazard in that each time it has been done, it has been done differently. That means there is a lack of formal process, and relies on people instead. The same thing happened on Hubig's watch too, when he went alone to the Host and signed the contracts, without BoD review. That too was a done deal, supposedly with a poison pill for leaving (hence why FI, in part, has moved there for 2010).

"What I find amazing is the number of apologists for the mess created by the board one of whom in his ignorance claims the choice of any venue is "haphazzard," which it most assuredly is not."

First off, I am not apologzing for anyone else. Why would I? Because there is no formal process, the then board did what it thought best, as did previous boards. That best doesn't look too good now, but they tried. There was no formal process to follow, so how could they do it wrong? They held meetings (no one came), they put it in newsletters, contracts were negotiated, signed, etc. The organization was committed. Now, with a new majority on the board, and more details of the final contracts revealed, the now board wants out. But, there is no formal process to do all this. If there is, then please quit pontificating and direct us all to the by laws and policy for moving a convention, cause I sure can't find any.

"After showing his ignorance he avers I should do my homework."

Well, you sure showed a lack of knowledge about what took place, and who was not participating. You posted something to try to excuse your friend because he wasn't there for one vote (which was the case a good bit of the time), trying to hold him blameless. That is ridiculous. By the way, what ignorance (lack of knowledge) have I shown? Please post facts on what I got wrong. I seem to be better informed than you on this by a mile.

Your friend missed a lot of meetings, and in between was not available for such things as reviews, meetings, questions, or work. His job took priority. I get that, but don't hold him up as a Saint in all of this. By taking up a position on the BoD – that he apparently could not fully fulfill – he denied the BoD a fully functioning member to help in all of this. Now that is not a crime, but in this case, it had consequences. So please spare us your excuses he is not culpable like the rest, or the majority or whatever He was on the BoD then, enough said.

Col Gray:

You are dead on. Well done sir.

Ffu Ytm:

"Responsibility is also shared by those who opposed the move and after the vote picked up their toys and went home."

I think you have it partly right, but a quick look at those who resigned would show their participation prior to resigning was limited. The causes for resigning really aren't known, and could have been a combination of the move and their ability/desire to serve out their term. If their ability was limited due to family and work, then they did the right thing, but it sure looks odd as to when it occured. The board is a collective, and should all hang together, or all hang separately. (Ben Franklin said that – nice)

Until there is a formal process, this will always happen. To me, the biggest gaffe in all of this was the apparent exclusion of the con staff. I have to wonder too, where was the then Con Ops in all of this?

Finally, I agree with part of what Bob is saying. Lawyers will only run up bills and offer opinions, which may be overturned by a judge. I disagree with the experts idea as I don't know of any at this point to help – or who did it any better in the past. If the BCC and hotels don't want to let HMGSE off the hook, I suggest we suck it up and go there for one year. A quick cost/benefits analysis would help answer this. It makes no sense to throw good money after bad. I think we can all survive this for one year if we have too. The question then becomes, where do we go from there?

Here go again. I hear some Yadda-Yadda from an unknown source who has no knowlege or understanding of runnig conventions yet who, acting as a toady for the undefendable continues to make unsubstantiated allegations in order to smear me, who had absolutely nothing to do with the move other in good faith I supported it. I wonder who it is?

The entire board met at Timonium and approved the site. Subsequently, I was voted off the board in the election, and omitted from decision making on Timonium.

Bob Coggins

Now for the next lie….

"The entire board met at Timonium and approved the site."

So, how was the membership included then (we all missed that part), and where is the formal process you seem to indicate exists (we missed that part too)? The entire board met this time as well (that was on the continent anyway), and approved this situation. I'm not defending them nor the choice, only saying what happened. I have already noted the BCC is not a venue I would have signed on with though like Timonium, you seem enamored with it. Whose judgement needs questioning?

You still haven't offered one cogent fact to back up your arguments, nor answered a single question posed to you; only personal attacks. I wonder why that is?,

And since you don't know me, how on earth would you know what knowledge I do and don't possess? I've run events a lot larger than any Historicon, and I seem to recall I was good enough for you to man your front registration desks unattended a couple of times when you ran Hcon way back when. And when was the last time you worked staff at a convention? You know, they have changed a good bit since the 80's.

And, how on earth am I smearing you?

I know, ignore that man behind the curtain!

I keep checking this thread for news regarding Historicon 2010, but run into the same fracas between historygamer (JM) and ratisbon (BC). Please continue gentlemen, but start a new thread so you're not clashing with the topic of this one. I hope Heather and Board can sneak some news onto this one in the meantime. If not all is ready yet, apparently, then a short update would certainly be appropriate and welcome.

I'm with BuddyBoy. Heather, if you're still reading this thread, please start a new thread when you actually have news for us?

And don't they say no news is good news. Or is it news is good news. I always get the two of them mixed up.

The traditional adages are:

- No news is good news.

- Even bad publicity is better than no publicity.

One or more of those could be disproven by this saga. Wait and see. News at 11.

Allen

As someone who is actually interested in where Historicon may or may not be all the bickering seems pointless. No matter what happened with previous boards or what happened with this board – it happened. The past is just that. Unless someone here has invented time travel then it can't be changed.

Maybe some ideas should be discussed for the future so that there aren't these problems in the future. I know that I always have heard that we should learn from the past so we don't repeat the same mistakes in the future. This is a perfect example.

No matter what happened, whose fault it was, or what the final outcome may be, everyone needs to put together constructive (that is the key) ideas for solving this issue so it does not happen again.

If they are followed by anyone is another matter but at least something constructive is being discussed that someone may listen to eventually rather than a bunch of adults going back and forth with each other over things that can't be changed.

The biggest thing that I had an issue with was that I think any change of venue should be put to a vote of the membership. Even a poll asking – If we move to (wherever) would you attend. Why or why not? Have you attended in the past two years? If no why not?

That gives an idea of what people think of a move and whether more or less people would attend. Simple but to the point.

Bob and Cleo 25 Nov 2009 11:29 a.m. PST wrote:
"someone should develop a boardgame on the subject"

It's been done, though in minatures. It was called the Amish Fork Rebellion (or some such) and it sort of mocked the BOD after one of the previous coups.

Close, It was Amish Rake Fight. My idea by the way. But it was not about the board but how there was nothing "Historical" about Lancaster.

That is ALL I have to say on the issue.
VR
James Mattes

My idea by the way. But it was not about the board but how there was nothing "Historical" about Lancaster.

Excuse me? That was a sentence in a discussion on the HMGS BoD yahoogroup. Who turned that sentence into a game, eh?

That's like saying… One day I was looking at all these great Napoleonic collectible figurs on my friend's mantlepiece and said, "Really, Someone ought to make a means of turning those figures into some sort of three dimensional conflict on scaled down terrain".. and THEN saying you invented Napoleonics!

(by the by, I'm just messing with you.. no interest in a flame war)

Nope you are right Walt! You and Bob did it. It was just a flame war on the old HMGS group. I just said I had the idea not the follow on.

Hope all is well with you. BTW

VR
James Mattes

CAKE! GET YOUR CAKE HERE! We also have ice cream and soda. Coffees available upon request but it takes a moment to brew it. Popcorn and peanuts! Mint Juleps for all the Southern Gentlemen and Ladies. Cold Beer!
(note: vending license is in order with the TMP authorities and license plate for the cart is valid until after the hostage situation)
Kyote, I need to get in touch with someone from the advertising department over at BNN as I need to run some commercials.

Travel plans for this July in turmoil? Consider a trip to lovely, scenic Bongolia, where the local terrorists are loveable rogues at heart and wargames are taken SERIOUSLY. Bongolia, where the sun occasionally shines, the waters could concievably be described as blue, where the air is sublethal several days a year, and where a wargamer's money is accorded all the respect it deserves!

This message broadcast on BNN courtesy the Bongolian Tourist Authority, formerly the Bongolian People's Madrassa for Extirpation of Western Dogs.

Just out of cursoity how many of yall read all three pages of the arguements.

HISTORYGAMER, RATISBON it is time to stop. Your bickering is helping to tear your society apart. You society may be in trouble. It looks like Historicon is in trouble. Stop playing your little ego gotcha games. Historicon is a bit more important than your little egos. It is time for the two of you to join together and approach the board and ask what the two of you can do to insure we have a successful convention, wherever the convention finally is located. You may not like where the convention is finally located but I'm sure you both want HMGS-E to succeed. We don't always get what we want. Adults accept that and move on. The only question is how are you going to help your society succeed. This is not the way.

Rich

Your bickering is helping to tear your society apart

I wouldn't worry about that. You should email the previous board members and thank them for tearing the society apart by attempting this foolish move to BCC

Rich if you ****fle those you listed and others who are bickering the thread still reads okay and you have a lot less to read.

Rich,

Thanks for your concern. I would hope you would have time to serve the Society in a more substantial capacity. I appreciate you concerns about bickering. Pardon if I ask where were you when the board in the mid-90s conducted a witch hunt which included me – attempting to show that I "stole" from the Society. Or where were you when a member of the board moved at an annual meeting at Historicon that I be kicked out of the Society? And where were you when a number of anonomous posters tore me a new one using lies and innuendo? That said…

As a founder and a member of the board for 10 years my concern is and always has been the business reputation of the Society. As an 8 time director of Historicon my concern has always been the well being of the convention.

For a number of years I watched a procession of unqualified members populate the board. Not unqualified because of the lack of intelligence but because of their failure to take the Society, with hundreds of thousands in the bank and with the responsibility to promote the hobby and the study of military history with the seriousness a member of the board must if the Society is to be successful.

For a number of years I have been distressed at the resignation of those few members who do take their membership on the board seriously and further distressed with the rumors and innuendo spread by acolytes alleging their failure to work with the majority. Indeed the unsubstantiated leaks from the board only serve to reinforce my belief the members put themselves and their personal interests ahead of the well-being of the Society.

One member told me he resigned when his 8 year old daughter asked why so many people were saying so many bad things about her daddy online. Why? To make their way easier by getting him to resign. That's way, and based on his posts I have reason to believe Historygamer is one of the conduits for the unsubstantiated smears of those former board members.

Having purged the serious members, the board then made a mistake. The unserious members made a serious decision/commitment without due consideration. Had they not there would not be a "crisis."

The commitment it made suddenly sobered it up and for whatever reason it changed presidents and is reconsidering Baltimore as a venue.

My concern now is a wiser and sober board will make a serious decision, without reference to advice, causing even more damage to the Society.

But whatever occurs, the board is the only entity that has the authority to make a decision on behalf of the Society. I pray they make the right decision.

Were I asked, my suggestions are:

1. The board empanel a group of wise men who have previously been on the board or directed a convention. [This panel should include the current Historicon Director, Bob Giglio, a lawyer and 2 former board members with contract and/or convention experience.]

2. Volunteers not be given free room and board in return for their "service." In lieu they be given a receipt for a contribution which they can submit with their taxes as a deduction. When last I ran the numbers so called "volunteers" were being reimbursed to the tune of over $16/hour and that was 10 years ago.

3. Attendees who host games pay to attend and if appropriate be given a receipt for a contribution to a not for profit.

4. The board look at the Hampton VA facility. [A large convention center in the middle of a parking lot bordered by 4 hotels.]

5. The board review all of its contracts and if appropriate recommend they be renegotiated. All of the board's papers are to be made public and all contracts published online.

6. Many hotels give free Sundays if you reserve Friday and Saturday. With this in mind the board should look at changing Historicon to from Friday to Monday. Not only will this save money it will make for an easier return trip.

Due to health I am not a candidate for the panel of wise men. Perhaps Todd Fisher, Dave Waxtel, Frank Chadwick, Jay Hadley, Don Manser or Dick Sossi could be candidates.

Bob Coggins

The board look at the Hampton VA facility. [A large convention center in the middle of a parking lot bordered by 4 hotels.]

And about 20-30 minutes away from two International airports and far enough away from Virginia Beach in the summer that the traffic is not that bad.

>In lieu they be given a receipt for a contribution which they can submit with their taxes as a deduction.
>

Well… that would make its actual value to the recipient a lot less. Even if charitable deductions are 100% off your income, the tax bracket is only about 15-30% to create real value.

And it would add to the complications of doing your taxes; another bit of paper to file, find, and add up. And save for 7 years.

And how much would it cost HMGS to keep the records of all those receipts?

Better to reduce the % of room cost comp'ed.

Heretofore, the expense has not pulled convention income into the red, has it? So just keep it reasonable.

But it does raise the "good old boy network" question -- is there a group of "privileged" volunteers who are used by the person in charge of a convention time & time again? Who independently verifies that they are earning their perks?

PaintsByNumbers

You may be correct. What if were paid "volunteers" a straight $15/hour for work?

Bob Coggins

"……the panel of wise men. Perhaps Todd Fisher, Dave Waxtel, Frank Chadwick, Jay Hadley, Don Manser or Dick Sossi could be candidates."
Ratisbon, you forgot to add a few that could help that crew really do a bang up job on HMGS East; Pat Condray, James Mattes, Historygamer, McDonaugh, Rick Egdvedt. And yes, you should be on it too.

Gentlemen, I just ran out of popcorn & beer please go on! Guys IMHO make a descion people have to make plans like a.s.a.p. Mike Adams

Who independently verifies that they [volunteers] are earning their perks?

Our time volunteering has been verified by the 3000+ attendees who see us manning the tables instead of gaming/shopping/sitting around B**S**ing.

Although there may be some B**S**ing WHILE manning the tables….not by me, of course.
Cleo

Wow, I think the intensity of the HISTORICON posts has actually died down! Well, at least until the next announcement…

Cleo never BSes, only plays games and wears oddly colored shirts, along with Bob of course.

P.S. Thanks for the cookies! :)

Bob:

You're pretty funny, I'll give you that. What color is the sky in your world?

Toby:

I have no bone to pick with you. Are you looking for one?

Ratisbon: I would hope you would have time to serve the Society in a more substantial capacity.

In a more substantial capacity? Why sir I'll have you know that people paid me good money for my advice. Boy, wisdom is just not valued like it should be.

However, I've done what I could to help with Historicon. In 2005, during the winter, I built the fortress and terrain squares for the siege of Malta [not the star fort]. It was highlighted in that area to the right of where you check in. It took months to build with my wee wittle hands. I shipped the whole thing to the east coast for Historicon on my own dime. The next Histroicon I went to was 2007. I contacted the convention manager offering to assign tables and times for the tournaments and, since I was not putting on a game, I volunteered to help out in any I could. Never heard a word. This year I'm at again, I'm building a 8'x6' terrain board with 28mm French and Spanish figures for an Italian Wars battle. I'm also designing the rules for the game. I will have to ship the figures and the terrain boards from the west coast to the east coast, again on my own dime. I believe that if I want Historicon to succeed I must do my part. That is so long as it is easy to reach by plane. I simply cannot afford the travel costs to the Host.

As you can guess, I'm on the west coast. I'm a member of NHMGS. At Enfilade I volunteered to judge the games. In the past I've frequently volunteered to man the registration booth – even on Saturday morning.

"If you ain't part of the solution you're part of the problem" EC. So I have a vested interest in seeing Historicon succeed and will do what I can to help. But Bob, I will not place my name for election to the board. And if drafted I will not serve. That is unless they come here and we have the meeting paddling sea kayaks.

Pardon if I ask where were you when the board in the mid-90s conducted a witch hunt which included me – attempting to show that I "stole" from the Society.

Sorry Bob, I could not have helped. I was in the VA psychiatric ward (something about Vietnam). So yes Bob I've been to the funny farm.

Bob: Were I asked, my suggestions are:
1. The board empanel a group of wise men who have previously been on the board or directed a convention. [This panel should include the current Historicon Director, Bob Giglio, a lawyer and 2 former board members with contract and/or convention experience.]

You don't need the board to empanel a group of wise men. You empanel yourselves then approach the board and tell them you're here to help.

2. Volunteers not be given free room and board in return for their "service." In lieu they be given a receipt for a contribution which they can submit with their taxes as a deduction. When last I ran the numbers so called "volunteers" were being reimbursed to the tune of over $16/hour and that was 10 years ago.

Wise men are there to advice the board. They are non-paid volunteers. Other volunteers can be given vouchers.

3. Attendees who host games pay to attend and if appropriate be given a receipt for a contribution to a not for profit.

Are you nuts? (I say affectionately). The whole success of the convention depends on your gms.

4. The board look at the Hampton VA facility. [A large convention center in the middle of a parking lot bordered by 4 hotels.]

Won't do Bob. Simply won't do. You were doing so good up to this point. Do you realize that the nearest major airport is 132 miles away?

5. The board review all of its contracts and if appropriate recommend they be renegotiated. All of the board's papers are to be made public and all contracts published online.

I would keep this available only to card-carrying members. Some may have to only be shared with wise men because of confidentiality.

6. Many hotels give free Sundays if you reserve Friday and Saturday. With this in mind the board should look at changing Historicon to from Friday to Monday. Not only will this save money it will make for an easier return trip.

I am intensely ambivalent to this point.

May I propose a different organization for HMGS-E

1. There should be two kings serving on alternating days. (Of course they must be able to trace their lineage back to Heracles. The Mormon Church's genealogy information may help here.)

2. The rest of the board should be made up of elected officers known as the Ephors.

3. A body of wise men should be constituted. They will be known as the Gerousia and should be at least 60 years of age (that will probably include most of the members.)

4. The card-carrying members will be known as the Damos. Proposals (OKed by both kings) brought up by the kings, ephors, gerousia shall be presented to the damos for an up or down vote. Of course this is a non-binding vote because what the hell does the great unwashed masses know anyway. The results will be housed in a vault for five years. We don't want these unwashed masses to get too uppity.

There you go Bob. That should solve all the society's problem. No, no, don't thank me. I just present it out of the generosity of my heart.

Rich

Excuse me, do away with GM getting something back for his time and effort. Without your GM there is no con or maybe you would prefer it just being dealers and shoppers. I remember the fight for the GM getting in free or at least a reduce charge for admittance. Lets not go there again.

doug redshirt 03 Dec 2009 5:38 p.m. PST
Excuse me, do away with GM getting something back for his time and effort. Without your GM there is no con or maybe you would prefer it just being dealers and shoppers. I remember the fight for the GM getting in free or at least a reduce charge for admittance. Lets not go there again.

*NJH: I remember that fight, and as I remember it wasn't very pleasant. Neither side staked out the morale high ground. However, without any further comments from me, I agree, let's not go there again.

firstvarty1979;
I think Cleo's shirts are more colorful than Bob's.

Hampton, Virginia is served by Patrick Henry Airport in Newport News, Norfolk International Airport in Norfolk and Richmond airport in Sandston. Patrick Henry is about five miles away.
Service members can hitch a ride to the con courtesy of the Air Mobility Command, subject to availability and duty requirements. There are no less than 32 military bases in the area.

Hampton?
i hear it is 20 extra driving hours to get there from illinois than it takes to get to baltimore :)

but the hyperbole does hide a serious point, do we know what the average travel time would be for the average member to the different sites. if i had to guess hampton would be as bad as it gets. and the host to be down the bottom too.

larry

>Do you realize that the nearest major airport is 132 miles away?

But it has a deep water port. You can paddle your kayak and save on air fare.

The next Histroicon I went to was 2007. I contacted the convention manager offering to assign tables and times for the tournaments and, since I was not putting on a game, I volunteered to help out in any I could. Never heard a word.

Rich,

Sorry if you had problems contacting us. We do not have a convention manager's position nor do we except solitations for tournement help. Most likely you attemted to email either the Convention Director (Bob Giglio), Deputy Director (myself), Events Manager (Duncan Adams) or Registration Manager (Me again). In anycase, each of us would have directed you to Scott Holder our Tournements Coordinator who could fill you in on any volunteer oppertunities. My apologies if we did not receive or somehow overlooked your email. We try to answer everyone if we have the time.

Neil Brennan
Historicon Deputy Director 2006-10
Events Manager 2009
Registration Manager 2006-08

@ Rich

3. Attendees who host games pay to attend and if appropriate be given a receipt for a contribution to a not for profit.
Are you nuts? (I say affectionately). The whole success of the convention depends on your gms.

Well said – the conventions are nothing without the GM's…. the players will always show, but it's the GM's that host and run the events

npm

OK guys I got myself to the Norfolk International Airport. How do I get from there to one of the hotels around the convention center Bob talked about?

Rich

Thanks Neil. By the way can you get word to the board that delays in a decision are going to result in higher transportation costs to those of us flying in.

Rich

Understood Rich. The Conops and I had just discussed that very factor Wednesday. They are doing the best they can to conclude negotiations and release the 2010 plan as quickly as possible. As you can appreciate,however, nothing is real till the ink is on the paper and they cannot afford any slip ups or legal faux pas. They have enough monkey droppings flying at them as it is because they are trying to finalize alternate plans while picking up the pieces of the original contracts. I don't envy them there position.

That being said they have kept Bob and the rest of the Historicon Convention Comittee up to speed on what they are doing and it has allowed us to proceed on key elements and we expect to be up to full speed when the announcements break. This will include hotel blocks, area highlights, transportation particulars, guest bookings, concession contracting and any of the other myriad of details we deal with normally before this time.

There is no recouping the time we lost due to the legal conflict, but we hope to be able catch up on most parts and retain the quality of show we have been able to produce over the last few years. With that said, both the HCC and the Board of Directors are painfully aware of the amount of angst and inconvenience this is causing our attendees. Along with transportation concerns (especially for you westies and the international croud) many set there vacation plans for the following year before the Holiday break. Some jobs even require submitting dates for leave prior to going on Holiday vacation. No one on the board wants to see anyone put out any further, however they also do not want to sucker punch you with promises they can't deliver. If all continues as planned there should be a major announcement in the next few days. I can't ask anyone for patience that is only yours to give, but please believe that no one is dragging anchor on this one. Hope to have good news for you all soon.

Neil Brennan
Historicon Deputy Director 2006-10
Events Manager 2009
Registration Manager 2006-08

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP
Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen and all the ships at sea.

Just want to let you know that we are getting closer to making an official announcement. I would like to commend the HISTORICON CONVENTION COMMITTEE (who are fully engaged in this process) for their unselfish contribution of time and energy while we are going through this. I would also like to thank the several volunteers from our organization who have stepped up to the plate and really helped us.

At this time if you have any individual concerns please feel free to call me at 301 622 1747 which is my home number.

Thank you and very respectfully

Orest Roman Swystun
Convention Operations, Historical Miniatures Gaming Society

Orest,

Thanks for the update. Take your time. In light of what occurred, its more important to get it right than get it fast.

Bob Coggins

That's weird, I called that number and got a massage parlor in Silver Springs MD ????? Better try that one more time, may have had some dyslexia there…..