"1815 Limited" Topic

A good friend of mine, John Franklin, has recently made his enormous collection availbale of primary documents on the 1815-campaign on a website.
More documents will ofcourse follow.

You can find many accounts from British men, but also Hanoverians, Brunswickers, and Netherlanders. All for a small fee.
In due time many will even be illustrated per letter, from scenes described in these.

Besides that Franklin also writes and strats publishing on the British Guards battalion during this campaign.

For all this look at: 1815.ltd.uk/site/index.php

Bookmarked for future reference. Excited to see what is revealed concerning Quatre-Bras and Ligny.

Particular attention has been given to the defence of the Château of Hougoumont on Sunday 18th June 1815, and extensive new research has revealed that there were a number of French incursions into the complex, that the Allies sustained critical losses during the fighting in the orchard, and that there were repeated attempts by the Allied garrison to secure more ammunition.

This alone will make for interesting reading…

yes it does look very promising. Yet another book on the to get list.

Also very interesting is that they will publish a series of soft cover booklets with the correspondence of eye-witness accounts, similar to the famous Siborne papers.

All from different nations and translated into English. That way many people will have easu access to these primary sources, without having to search through archives or not speaiking the language.

Defintely now on my 'list'.

I bought their Hanoverian Correspondence Archive (30page PDF) 10GBP, contains some interesting stuff. No doubt most/all of it is 'known' to historians but for the 'hobbyists' like me who only reads/speaks english it is really interesting to be able to read, 'first hand' so to speak, the correspondence of people who were directly involved (translated from german in this case).

Example:
There is a report by the Lt-Colonel of the 5KGL where he records how the light and grenadier companies were detached to go into LHS.

Then later the remaining companies were ordered to advance to retake LHS (after 5pm) and were caught in line by 5-6 squadrons of Cuirassier and were as a result reduced to 19 effectives!!

Also they lost 76 men as prisoners in that melee, we often think of killed and wounded in a melee but how many of us take into account 'prisoners'. You also realise there is a big difference between the reported killed/wounded the next day and the 'effective' strength of a unit at end of battle.

If you want another 'something you never thought about', how about a company that runs out of ammunition and gets resupplied with rifle ammunition by mistake causing a considerable delay. Yes, they even had snafu's back then.

Would be really nice if they were to do something similar for the French or Prussians rather than just the Allies.

Im March the first of a series of booklets will be published, with coorespondence of the Netherlands troops. Later on more of these booklets on the Hanoverians, Brunswickers, etc. will follow.

The Netherlands coorespondence book is illustrated with original drawings in full colour by Gerry Embleton, and there will be a few maps included of the battle terrains at Quatre-Bras and Waterloo.

Shipping will be starting from 18 March 2010.

Besides this correspondence series, 1815 Limited also includes an offer for full access to the growing archive of letters and other documents on the campaign for 12 months.

If all goes well, I myself, will also publish my first volume (of 4) on the Netherlands Mobile Army at the end of 2010 through 1815 Limited.

Dear Erwin
Congratulations. It will be great to look at the evidence to have a balanced view of the Battle.

Stephen

Yes, we'll probably finally get incontrovertible evidence that the French won.

Oh good, more research, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Erwin,

Good to hear that your excellent work will appear in print. Despite what others say, it will be more than welcomed. If certain persons are not interested in this research, one wonders why they bother to comment upon it, no?

Best,

Bill

I am with Widowson on this one I can't wait to see your research in print I have followed it here and read some of the material you have provide and will certainly be buying your books when they become available. Good luck Erwin.

Is this going to be part of a balanced series where your friend is going to also include Prussian and French (you know, the two major participants) accounts? I don't wish to sound ungrateful, but if it's just part of the allies then it really is just one side of the story that isn't going to be that revealing. Do you you know anything more that you can add?

Vive L'homme-peur

"…isnt going to be that revealing."

Transl.

"Isnt about Napoleon so I dont care."

As I recall a significant number of the participants in 1815 were from the British Isles, the Low countries, and Non-Prussian Germany. Any research or new source material on any of the participants placed in the public domain is a good thing, and to be applauded. Don't be a misery-guts.

BTW. We won.

They have already said that they will be adding French material towards the end of the year.

Of course both Prussian and French material will also become available on the online archive.

French material will start book publication in 2011 with two volumes; one from original manuscripts and the other from printed sources.
Likewise Prussian material, as much as is available and not locked up somewhere in Russia since 1945, is scheduled for publication in 2013 and 2014. Meanwhile this will also be part in the nearer future on the online archive.
So in the end everyone will have easy access to a wealth of sources, that you would otherwise have to look for yourself in archives all over Europe, spending lots of time and reading all the languages. Now all will be become into reach and in English.

Yes, 1815 Limited is not merely centralised around anything British. John Franklin has been studying the campaign by looking at all participants and appreciates all.
Just as I do and it will not be a series of books and volumes, simply glorifying particular people, nations or armies.

If you do not want to sign up for the website, then you can already look to order any of the publications (currently planned) through Amazon.
Just type in "john franklin waterloo" and presto.

One wonders why those not interested would bother to lift their fingers to their keyboard and bother to say so….

I am all for it, I think it will be totally refreshing to finally get a perspective from the Netherlands…after all, this is my heritage so I for one am very interested.

Shane

joined 1815 and really enjoying the experience

Ged

GJM.FIGURINES/ NGA ARCHIVE

Shane I agree – jealousy is nearly always the reason

I am also on 1815 and it's very interesting

This is exciting news and will definitely be an invaluable reference for serious students of the Napoleonic Wars – Waterloo.

Congratulations on your book, Erwin! I'll be looking for it, too.

I am delighted to tell you on behalf of 1815 Limited that the first book on the Netherlands troops at Waterloo will be available from the 18th March, and that those people who have seen the contents have been pleased to recommend it. I have forwarded an update to the editor, including further information on the material contained therein, and would be happy to answer any questions on this and other aspects of the study. I am also delighted to confirm that the first in a series of four volumes by Erwin Muilwijk will be published by 1815 Limited later this year, and feel sure that all impartial observers will find the combination of material from the Dutch and Belgian sources on Waterloo most enlightening!

Please note that 1815 Limited is not supplying Amazon. We have had a number of questions from people through the 1815 Limited website with regards to the selling price of the Netherlands book from Amazon in the United Kingdom. Please note that Amazon listed the books without our permission and have 'told' us the price they are willing to pay for them (which is actually less than we can produce them for). It would be commercial suicide for us allow this to happen, and so we have been forced to notify Amazon that we will not be supplying any of our books. I sincerely apologise to everyone who has ordered their copy of the Netherlands book through Amazon. The books are available through the 1815 Limited website and will be listed on eBay when they are in stock.

Dear John
I hope that the Military Book shops will be able to stock your books like Caliver Books, On Military Press, Zinfigurinnen and of course Ken Trotman.

It is important for readers to see the books and understand the quality of the content.

Stephen

Dear Stephen, I sincerely hope that the various parties you mention stock the books 1815 Limited is publihing. However, the market for military history books is not as active as it once was, and it is very difficult for a small pubishing house like us to persuade some of these people to actually invest in stock. As you well know, the process of research, writing and producing a book is very costly, and is never really reflected in the items selling price. That is unless you simply copy other people's work, which of course is a lot cheaper!

Dear John
I agree. The book buying market is very slow but a number of Military Bookshops are looking at new books to tempt buyers into their stores. The number of books in Napoleonic has dried up recently from conversations with those I have given above over the various writing projects I am doing.

Research costs a huge amount. I have now obtained scaled plans of nearly all the European Artillery systems which has cost me a great deal of time and expense. It would be great to be able to get these seen by a wider audience. Under NGA we have attempted this in a small way.

If I can be of assistance then please contact me. My books upon Artillery, Prussians, Russians etc.. show that I have looked outside the British and French sphere.

Stephen

Dear Stephen, that is a very kind offer and I will certainly contact you for some further advice on the Prussian artillery used during the Waterloo campaign. John

Dear John
Recently I edited the Lt Swabey Diaries of the RHA which was very interesting, the plans of the Royal Artillery by Charles Dupin and Adye (1813). Last year I wrote a book on the French Ordnance with a colleague.

It is the technical side being a scientist that interests me. The positioning of batteries etc… have always been a problem for me at Waterloo.

Stephen

Stephen, The thing I find extraordinary with the artillery at Waterloo is not the positioning, as I presume this was dictated to a large extent by the terrain, but the lack of ammunition. Almost all of the extant German accounts I have translated from the archives in Hannover and Braunschweig refer to the lack of material at the conclusion of the battle. However, this does not appear to have been an issue for the Netherlands artillery. It is clear that by the evening Sympher's KGL battery, which had just been moved forward into the line, and Kramher de Bichin's Belgian battery were active against the on-coming attack by the Garde Impériale, while the rest of the Allied artillery (including the Brunswickers) was idle. Unfortunately, the battery commanded by Captain Lux was trapped on the high road behind an over-turned caisson and did not participate in the battle.

I find the relatively small number of casualties among the British artillery very odd. Something strange going on there.

Dear John
It is something that has not been fully considered. Each gun would have an allocation of about 120-160 rounds. Firing at one round per minute this would only give 2-3 hours of firing in a 8 hour battle.

Much of the artillery was engaged at Quatre Bras and in the retreat but the rounds used do not seem to have been replenished. The ammunition was the responsibility of the Ordnance train and not the Royal Artillery.

It is a very complex situation and would be interesting to see where the problems are.

In addition, the problems over different calibres. The Netherlands and Brunswick artillery could use French Ammunition as they were equipped with AnXI guns. The British could not.

Logistics has often been overlooked but tracking down the numbers has been very difficult as this is normally edited out of memoirs etc.

Stephen

Stephen

I have pictures of Lt swabeys grave if you are interested, its not in very good condition.

Stephen,Thank you for the information. It is interesting to note the number of rounds expended, as looking at the returns for the KGL there is precise information on the amount of ammunition used by each battery at Waterloo. I'll pull all of this information out and post it here, along with that for the Dutch and Belgian batteries, because this is contained in both Constant-Rebèque's and Zuijlen van Nyevelt's reports. Another point of interest was a comment made by several battery commanders, saying that they only had the minimum number of men required to operate with the guns and sent the rest into the second line, to be called forward when needed. However, if you take Braun's Hanoverian battery, they had so few men by the end of the battle they had to ask the highland soldiers from Packs Brigade to help move the guns back into position.

Dear John
This is absolutely facinating as I have not been able to obtain any of this technical information. I have been through the RA Journal, Siborne, Dickson, Swabey etc… All lacking and a seeming disinterest in their craft.

Firing a gun is a tiring business. Each time a gun fire it recoils about 9 feet depending upon the ground, angle of fire and charge used. So each time it has to be moved back into place. The Rammer has by far the hardest job. Unlike smokeless powder, gunpowder quickly fowls the gun making it harder to ram and seach the charge.

Ammunition supply is crucial. Again there is sketchy evidence that the battle started late because the French could not move their caissons to supply the artillery. The artillery could get to position as they have bigger wheels and a higher weight to power ration than the Gribeauval 4-wheeled limber. Now this is normally put as they could not get the guns in position but this is unlikely.

The French could not fight their guns independently of the caissons unlike the British who had more ammunition on the limber. In addition the Desaguliers Ammunition Wagon had 5 foot wheels and could travel anywhere the gun could. The efficiency of ammunition resupply with ammunition boxes rather than having to handle each individual round separately.

To add to the complication, the Netherlands and Brunswick artillery were using French AnXI guns. Not British block trail guns. The ammunition is not compatible. I have said about logistics before and something I have not studied fully is the appaling problems with the complex logistic chain.

Another important issue is that Wellington stripped away the RHA from the cavalry except for one troop on the extreme left in which Captain Swabey was serving. He used this as a mobile reserve and not as many romantics think of horse artillery as cavalry support guns. The purpose was clear when he re-armed them with the heavy 9-pdr rather than the Light 6-pdr.

Identification of guns and which were used is very difficult as you are left with the poundage rather than a particular gun. The allocation of ammunition gives an excellent clue to the origin of the guns.

Of great note is that only a few 12-pdrs were of Gribeauval design. The 6.4in Howitzers were the later M1795 Long Porte design based upon the Prussian 10-pdr. I have never seen an inventory of the guns captured at Waterloo. I know that such a list exists of those 900+ guns captured in Russia 1812 but I have never been able to track that down.

These sorts of things are facts to which can be verified with information that you are starting to publish. There is a new generation that is more numerate that seem more interested in this data that the Victorians did much to attempt to destroy if you listen to those from the RAHT library let alone read Duncan's history of the RA.

The more I have looked at the Royal Artillery in the Napoleonic wars the more I wonder how it functioned at all. The gunner and drivers were separate under different officers, the guns when not on the battlesfield was the responsibility of the Board of Ordnance train hence the lawyerish statement that the Royal Artillery did not loose a single gun in the Peninsular by Oman. That is true but they did when they were being transported to the battlefield. Supplies of food, water and ammunition had different organisations for them.

The Board of Ordnance was a private company and completely independent of the British Army. Only the King and the Cabinet could intercede. The Master General of Ordnance sat in the Cabinet.

All these things at some stage I need to pull together but are talked about in my various introductions to Dupin, Adye and Swabey diary. I have a biographical sketches of RHA officers written but not got this published as the publisher let me down alas.

Stephen

Stephen,
A fascinating discusion. Is there a list of all the guns captured at Waterloo? I have seen some at the Tower, some at Sandhurst, and some at Chelsea Pensioners grounds.
What Napoleonic books on Artillery would you recommend?
Thanks
Robert

Dear Robert
There must be a list somewhere but where. Many gun-barrels were used to make the Wellington tomb. Many were sold etc…

What aspects are you looking for?

Adye (1813 rp2010) Bombardier and Pocket Gunner, Ken Trotman
link
This was a small pocket book carried by every Royal Artillery officers of over 400 pages packed with useful information. Alas there are no diagrams.

Muller (1780) Artillery Treatise is fine for 7YW and at a push AWI but not Napoleonic.

Franklins (2007) British Napoleonic Artillery has excellent CAD drawings of the artillery pieces from Victorian plans. There were differences that are shown by the Dupin (1820) that has been reprinted.

BP Hughes (1960s) British Smoothbore Artillery is excellent work for its time.

Wilkinson-Latham (1973) British artillery on land and sea, 1790-1820 – Good book.

The best of the Osprey Books on the subject are Dave Hollins (2004) Austrian Artillery – Although I do not like some of the artwork on technical drawing grounds. The carriage and the barrel on at least one of the drawings are not on the same alignment. The text is sound and good pictures of extent guns.

If it is technical information with scale plans then my books would be of interest to you. Extracts can be found at:-
link
NGA Ordance scale plans and papers
gjmfigurines.co.uk/?40ac1f78

Stephen

Stephen, I do have information on the number of guns captured and those responsible for the inventory in reports and private letters, and I know that there are extant lists of the guns, the type and the number of caissons etc., in Hannover and Delft. I will ask Erwin about the latter and check my own information when I am back in Switzerland next week (I am currently in Scotland overseeing the dispatch of several hundred copies of the Netherlands book). The Netherlands book has a number of accounts from officers and men serving with the Dutch and Belgian artillery, including: Captain Jean-Baptisie Osten, an Adjoint on the Netherlands artillery staff of General Gunkel; Cornelis van Opstall, Adriaan Bijleveld, Wijnand Koopman and Carel van der Wall, with the artillery attached to the 2nd Netherlands Division; Willem Bentick and Isaac Kikkert, with the artillery attached to the 3rd Netherlands Division; Abraham Petter and Willem van Wassenaar, with the artillery attached to the Netherlands Cavalry Division. They provide real details of the role, positioning and losses among the various Dutch and Belgian artillery units, while Cornelis van Opstall, the Major commanding the artillery attached to the 2nd Netherlands Division confirms the following in his report:

The strength of the artillery [of the division] on the 1st June 1815: 4 howitzers; 12 guns; 26 artillery ammunition wagons; 16 infantry ammunition wagons; 6 reserve guns carriages; 5 baggage wagons; 3 smiths wagons.

The strength of the artillery [of the division] on the 18th June 1815: 2 howitzers; 7 guns; 10 artillery ammunition wagons; 4 infantry ammunition wagons; 2 reserve gun carriages; 2 baggage wagons; 1 smiths wagon.

The loss of the artillery attached to the division on the 16th and 18th June 1815:

Staff: 1 officer slightly wounded.

Horse artillery: 1 officer severely wounded; 3 men killed; 3 severely wounded; 3 slighty wounded; 9 missing.

Train: 1 man killed; 2 severely wounded; 2 slightly wounded; 3 missing.

Foot artillery: 1 officer killed; 1 severely wounded; 1 slightly wounded; 1 man killed; 4 severely wounded; 8 slightly wounded; 2 missing.

Train: 1 officer severely wounded; 6 men killed; 10 severely wounded; 7 slightly wounded; 17 missing.

Ammunition expended: 1078 round shots; 176 rounds of canister; 309 shells; 30 rounds with canister for howitzers.

Please note that the above has been translated from the original Dutch manuscript. The records have more information, as Zuijlen van Nyevelt's reports (which includes ten pages of appendices) provides greater detail of the losses and material used. The report by Jean-Victor de Constant-Rebècque has an enormous amount of information on the artillery, both prior to and after the campaign (or at least the actual fighting). However, I have not had reason to translate all of this material.

This type of information is reflected in the reports and returns of the Hanoverian and KGL artillery in Hannover. Naturally, all of this information either is, or will be, incuded in the two books. John

Dear John
Thank you for the information. Certainly much to consider. Another of many for purchasing the whole series of books. These will be essential in the re-evaluation of the battle and campaign.

Stephen

During the course of several conversations the topic of publication has arisen, and I would like to say that I am willing to discuss any topic with anyone if they feel they have something that may be of interest on the Waterloo campaign. Indeed, I will go further to state that I have material which at present is redundant (I simply do not have the time to work on it myself, for example one hundred and thirty-five letters from George, Alexander and Charles Dashwood, documenting their service in the Peninsula and at Waterloo which is crying out to be taken on by some). I am in a position to finance the work and would be willing to talk about potential projects with any members. All of this will be done in the strictest confidence through 1815 Limited. Please feel free to contact me with your ideas and proposals via 1815.ltd.uk. John Franklin