"Command & Colors Napoleonics " Topic

I see GMT just posted this on their P500 list and taking orders. I for one will probably order it based on my experience with C&C Ancients.

Waiting for this one quite some time.

I'd really like to see this one too. I'll probably get it through my local gaming store (Great Hall Games, Austin, Texas) when it's available.

I'm in!

You know, it might me behoove to take a closer look at how P500 works . . .

Since the American company GMT is producing it, it will be easier for most American hobby stores to get it in stock as compared to others that are produced in Europe and have limited American distributors.

Glad to see it hit the market.

I've been waiting eagerly for this for years…

But now that I see what's planned, I'm kind of disappointed. Brits, Frogs and Portuguese? What happened to the Spanish? You know, the people who LIVE in Spain, where most of the Peninsular War happened? Who fought Bonaparte for seven years?

…and Napoleon? Which battle was it again where he fought the British and the Portuguese? Oh, my mistake, there wasn't one! I guess ol' Boney's going to be a no-show at the debut of C&C "Napoleonics".

Furthermore, while I realize that many (the majority?) of the target audience want to see the Redcoats, I suspect a lot of those people want the Brits, the whole Brits, and nothing but the Brits. By doing Peninsular as the core release, GMT and Mr. Borg seem to be kind of shooting themselves in the foot when it comes time to sell the expansions. Hype for this has been building up for so long that it wouldn't have mattered what was in the initial release. But now, if they come up with, say, Austrians for the first expansion and that isn't a big hit, then what hope have we got for seeing more?

Anyway, I'm probably just overreacting. I'd hoped for something different (working through the Wars chronologically, for instance), but it isn't to be. Oh well; I'll wait for the reviews, and check the price tag when the game hits stores.

Yes, it's a disappointing start, but probably not surprising.

I'm eager for it, though, and will probably go ahead and buy a copy, but only in wait for what is to follow. If the first expansion is for the War of 1812, I'm going to up and quit. :)

Nah. Expansion #1 will be Egypt…

"I see GMT just posted this on their P500 list and taking orders."

But if they don't get 500 pre-orders, no game.

And I still don't see what this game will offer that this derivation doesn't:
link

I've been playing Battle Cry Napoleonics for years. Works fine.

It will offer them a chance to make $70 USD

The good news is that you don't have to buy the game if you don't want it, Mike.

"The good news is that you don't have to buy the game if you don't want it, Mike."

The good news is that neither do you, if Battle Cry Napoleonics does it for you (as it does for me).

Seriously, what has C&C:N got that BCN hasn't (and thus makes it worth $70 USD )?

Lots of wooden blocks?

I was told in a Hurricon show meeting with the autor that the Spanish is planned to be be released as a counter only expansion with a scenario guide.

It should be unexpected that British forces would be the first opponent for the French as the system was originaly offered to Hasbro UK.

Napoleon in Egypt was not mentioned as one of the intial expansions. The more traditional armies of Russia, Austria and prussia will come next.

Some expansions will be more elaborate than others. Scenario playtesting is one of the hurdles but the Florida playtest crew has been working on them for years.

Well, if you've been meeting with the author, maybe you can petition him to change the name to C&C: Wellington. I mean, that's what they're making, isn't it? It's kind of insulting to both Wellington and Napoleon to call it C&C:Napoleonics when Big Nose is the star and Boney's a no-show.

"Seriously, what has C&C:N got that BCN hasn't (and thus makes it worth $70 USD USD )?"

It appears to have a board, playing peices, cards, dice, scenarios, and a full set of rules. The link you posted just has some house rules used to modify a long out of print game. For some people (myself included) the link is enough to provide hours of probably fun gaming. For others the $70 USD is a small price to pay not to have to track down a used copy of Battle Cry and enough miniatures to play. Horses for courses.

"It appears to have a board, playing peices, cards, dice, scenarios, and a full set of rules. The link you posted just has some house rules used to modify a long out of print game. For some people (myself included) the link is enough to provide hours of probably fun gaming. For others the $70.00 USD USD is a small price to pay not to have to track down a used copy of Battle Cry and enough miniatures to play. Horses for courses."

I was kind of assuming that most players would already have Battle Cry… but as you say, horses for courses.

I for one do not have Battle Cry. ACW not being one of my gaming interests.

I have C&C:A and enjoy it very much.

C&C:N is on my watch list. Even with the P500 discount it is not cheap. Not unreasonable, but not cheap either.

369 pre-orders so far, so a bunch of us are interested in seeing this game get published.

Kniaz, I imagine he used that since the era is called the napoleonic era and not the Wellington Era! LOL! That would have been a great name for an expansion if he had came out with an Austrian or Russian opponent first and then added the British.

I picked up Battle Cry for $13 USD when Hasbro closed the Game Keeper stores. I understand now that it goes for $80 USD or more on e-bay! Not that I will ever part with it. So, I'm with Mike on this and don't really see the point of buying another version of the game.

Kniaz, I imagine he used that since the era is called the napoleonic era and not the Wellington Era! LOL!

I'd be pretty annoyed too if someone tried to sell me a book called "The Napoleonic Wars", and it only wrote about Wellington's Peninsular campaigns!

I believe that the Port. units may also double as Spanish units in some of the scenarios. I find it hard to believe that they would include 15 scenarios and not have any Spanish units in any of them.

"369 pre-orders so far,"

Only another 131 to go …

369 orders in one day since the public announcement. I don't know if that is a P500 record but I wouldn't be surprised. This one is gonna make it for sure.

Heck, I have Battle Cry but will still buy this one. It isn't like $50 USD will break the piggy bank. That is chump change when compared to purchasing miniatures. Besides, you get a game out of the box, not just a $30 USD set of rules. I think the flavor of the cards and rules in this one is worth the price of admission.

Picks your poison, I'll drink this one just fine.

I love minis and have Shako 2 and AOE, but this is still worth it.

Pre-ordered mine! Might buy some of these new Perry plastics or Victrix…

Seriously, what has C&C:N got that BCN hasn't (and thus makes it worth $70 USD USD )?

From what I have been reading quite a bit different.

This is a small snippet from the Consim world folder that was just set up for the game. link
It's going to vary from nationality to nationality, but in general there is a bit more differentiation between infantry than cavalry. Here's a listing of the current block composition for the French in the first game. Perhaps this will help:

Line Infantry -10 units – 40 blocks

Light Infantry – 5 units – 20 blocks

Grenadier Infantry – 1 unit – 4 blocks

Young Guard Infantry -1 unit – 4 blocks

Old Guard Infantry – 1 unit – 4 blocks

Militia Infantry – 2 units – 8 blocks

Light Cavalry – 3 units – 12 blocks

Heavy Cavalry – 2 units – 8 blocks

Guard Heavy Cavalry – 1 unit – 4 blocks

Foot Artillery – 3 units – 9 blocks

Horse Artillery – 2 units – 6 blocks

Leader – 4 blocks

408 pre-orders now…only 92 more needed.

For some reason, this game isn't blowing any "wind up my skirt"…I like all the other Borg type games, but what should be my (potential) fave, just isn't doing much for me!

More of the "period flavor" details will become known to us as the publishing date gets closer.

I'm thrilled to see this game coming – and I put my order in on the P 500.
I'm interested in some guidance / help / disdain or mocking – (or combination thereof) re: my miniature plans for the rules.
As a long time gamer I've managed to collect a lot of periods in different scales. But I never caught the Napoleonic gaming bug (though I consider myself moderately well read on the period). I've reached a point in my life where I just want my games to be simple and fast, and let me move around pretty toy soldiers. I've aged past the simulationist masochism I had when I was a younger gamer. In any case, the C&C rules really hit the spot for me and I have had some really enjoyable games with my group using the Ancients rules.
So…I'm thinking, let me use the appearance of C&C Wars of Napoleon (or Wellington …whatever) as an excuse to start collecting Napoleonics (here I confess to the British readers that I really wanted to type in "Nappies" there – but see – you've trained me :) .
So onto the questions:
1. The basic rules assume a smallish number of large hexes. I've created my wargame table to reflect this with 6" hexes drawn onto it. Certainly, the C&C napoleonics rules as published will use that board size. But it's a safe bet they will add "Epic" rules at some point. I don't have a lot of experience playing the epic versions of C&C Ancients, Memoir or Battlelore. If I had to choose a table set up – what would be best – the small hexes or the larger?
What I'm trying to get at is – do folks find the epic games better or more fun than the normal games?

2. Related to the first question – scale. I'm very tempted by the explosion of 28mm plastic figures at reasonable prices. I drool at the thought of getting a Perry figure for about
$.66 USD (less than an AB 18mm by the way). But if you were starting a project like this – how would you think it through? If the Epic games are a more attractive option – then I think 18mm figs are the answer as they will look better in the smaller (probably 4") that I would use. Certainly 18mm figures would be more flexible as I could simply pack more of them into my existing 6" hexes. On the other hand…..Perry figures in plastic…drool….

Brian

Brian:

I am mulling the same thing. For me it comes down to table size. You can do 15-18mm on a 4*6 ft table. For 28mm it would be 6*10 ft.

There have been some discussion about facing of units, if it would be included in the rules or not. According to GMT there will be no such rules, any comments on that?

No facings is a good thing IMO – it keeps the game simple and playable. If you want facings, you can make up some house rules to deal with that. This is not a system that tries to be the ultimate in realism, but it is a heck of a lot of fun to play. Let the dice determine the effect of that flank shot that you're taking, without the burden of a bunch of special rules that others may not want. The system is relatively easy to tweek, and some gamers like more detail/realism than others. To me the beauty and attraction of the system is its simplicity. I have miniatures rules that I can use if I want a more detailed simulation of Napoleonic warfare and have all day to play them. C&C:N is more of a "Napoleonic battle in an hour" type thing, so some compromises have to be made to accomplish that goal. I run Battle Cry & Memoir '44 games at the local cons and the players seem to always have a great time. They can walk up to the table knowing nothing about the game and within a couple of card plays begin to see how it works and start getting into the spirit of the game.

Re: Facing – given that Borg games seem to have the hex map set with the hex points aiming at the long edge of the board, it should be fairly easy to add facing rules. For the ECW version of C&C ancients that we play, we require that the unit face toward a hex point. This has two nice effects. First, it gives the units a definite 2 hex frontage, and second, it allows troops in line to actually line up. When you are using miniatures, the look of the thing matters and having the troops actually line up realistically is visually appealing. If the figures have to face a flat hex side, they never quite line up. I'm not worried about facing rules in this version because it should be very easy to add them if needed.

BC

bcminiatures1, is your ECW version of C&C Ancients available? I'd be very interested in trying them – my next door neighbour has expressed an interest in learning about wargaming, but he idolises Cromwell, so I've got to sort out an ECW game, rather than my usual Napoleonics!
Arthur

Hi Arthur -I'd be happy to email them to you. Is there a way I can reach you. I can't claim they are special. We just created rules for pikes (which I got from GMT forums), Lobsters, guns and pursuit. It's a pretty simple system. Funny thing, the battles have a great ECW feel . I was surprised.
BC

BC, Thank you very much for your kind offer!
Please send the rules to: arthur1815@lineone.net
I've already downloaded a copy of the C&C Ancients rules from the GMT site.
Arthur

501 pre-orders now, so it's officially going to be published. Thanks to everyone who pre-ordered this. Now the long wait for its release begins.