"Volley & Bayonet question" Topic

I'm getting heavily into the Jacobite Rebellion period and came across the excellent two volume source book on the period for Volley & Bayonet (1994, GDW). I now have the rules as well and am learning them so I can get a few games together.

In all the system seems very simple though in a few small instances I'm a little stumped. My main question right now is regarding unit strengh versus unit stands. It doesn't seem entirely clear from the rules how you determine exactly how many stands you use for a particular unit. I get the part (I think) where you cross reference the scale equation where each strength point equals 100 men (in the division scale) or 200 men (in the wing scale). Therefore a unit with 400 men would be 4 strenght points but It's not clear on how many stands you put on the table to equal that, and if you remove stands as the unit takes hits. If a 4 strenght unit takes 3 hits does it still function with all 4 original stands it started with?

I'm trying to start with the Battle of Prestonpans and want to get a feel for how many figures (how many stands actually) I will need.

how many stands you use for a particular unit.

Officially there is supposed to be one stand to a unit on the properly-sized base (like 3" x 3" for Napoleonic brigades; and 3" x 1.5" bases for 18th Century 'linear' regiments) and you vary the number of SPs to match its size and/or the level you're playing.

In practice you can use any number of stands to a unit that you'd like. We use three stands with four figues on each for WSS (inf: 1.5" x 2" deep) and SYW (inf: 1.5" square) so that we can use the same figures for tactical-level rules.

You can put as many or as few figures on the unit base (or multiple bases) as you'd like for aesthetic or financial reasons. It might be twelve 28mm figures or just six; twenty 6mm figures or fifty.

And it's more common to use an Order of Battle and you cross off the casualty SPs as they happen rather than using figure removal. (The writer's original wargaming group used toy 54mm plastic figures, so kept track of casualties on the paper OB instead of with a figure removal system.) If you don't like paper, then you can use some type of marker system to keep track of SP losses. (Like coloured magnets stuck on the back of a unit's metal movement tray or base.)

And the unit stays active fighting with all of its dice entitlement even if it only has 1SP remaining until all of its SPs are lost (or the higher formation loses enough total SPs to affect the surviving units in different ways).

Do you know about this V&B web site?
link

And I can get you the Yahoo! group site too if you'd like.

I don't think you reading the setup correctly. Depending on the scale… units are a single element with multiple hits.

I'm not a player of the period… but generally the smaller scales have elements representing battalions or even companies. Each of these elements has strength points based on unit size.

For instance…. an ACW Brigade of 2000 men would be a "massed unit" (Brigade under version 1) with 4 hits. Each hit would equal 500 men. When the unit has taken 4 hits… it is removed (each hit actually = roughly 250 casualties).

For a "linear" (or regimental in version 1) base the strength is limited to 3 points (1500 men)… though period rules for early SYW (and even earlier periods) allow for 4pt linear stands for armies that used 4 rank lines and large regiments.

Battles using the smaller scale usually have only linear based infantry. The linear (again regimental in version1 rules) are limited to 3 strength points… though Jacobites may have higher…. I never have played the period.

Casualties are generally recorded on a roster system.

I hope this helps.

Joe Collins

I don't think the Jacobite Rebellion would work at all using Volley and Bayonet. Even at Culloden there are only ~8,000 government troops against ~7,000 highlanders.
link

In V&B terms (with ~1500 men per base) that only would be about 5 bases for each side. Hardly worth bothering with.

Thanks for the comments guys!

Mike, the V&B source books on the Jacobite Rebellion (Jacobite volumes 1 and 2) include rule changes to reflect the change in scale required to game the battles from that conflict. They include a wing scale which is 100 men per SP and a division scale which is 50 men per SP.

In addition I found where it is made clear when you use more than one base and how many to use if so.

Pg 53 of the Jacobite volume 1 book states: "Jacobite battalions have one wing (or two divisions) if they have 449 men or less, and two wings (or four divisions) if they have 500 or more men." A "wing" or "division" in the rules is one stand (3x1.5). If using the division scale (50 men = 1 SP) a Jacobite unit with 500 men in it would be represented on the board by 4 stands (2 in the wing scale). It goes on to state that British units follow the "rule of ranks" allowing a max of 3 SP per stand. A 500 man British unit would therefore have two stands in the wing scale and 4 stands in the division scale.

I think it makes sense now…

You can also play V&B where each base represents a single btn or even single companies, Mike. We've done it with NW Frontier Colonial for example using four British bases to a btn, treating the bases as two-company 'divisions' that could take 3 or 4 hits each. I don't have the Jacobite books that jpipes cites, but they're probably written with a lower level in mind, like a base equals a single btn or clan unit, than the Napoleonic and later variants.

Actually – 1st Edition V&B used a sliding scale which allowed for major refights of actions – down to smaller scale actions. I have used the "wing scale" for games in the AWI for years and find that it works quite well

The stand sized for the division scale are the 3" wide by 1.5" deep. A stand at division scale can have from 2 SP to 4 SP – so it can have from 200 to 400 men. A unit of 600 men would be represented by either two ot three stands – if firearmed troops I would go with three stands – if melee type I would use two. The stands could move and operate as wished within command – but would count as a unit for casualties and morale collaspe.The number of figures on a stand is up to you.

The major change is that the range of your small arms and artillery are pushed up – the 2" musket range at the regular scale jumps to 8" at the wing scale, and 16" at the division scale. In the same way artillery ranges jump as well – and one starts to see some differents between light guns 3-4 lb guns and heavier weapons – for the AWI my 3/4 lb guns have a close range of 12" and a long range of 46" – while my 6lb guns are 16" close and 64" long. Course in the AWI one needs to find an area where range is not cut down by terrain

The rules on morale results and the ability to disorder troops make V&B more of a tactical game then one realizes at first. Order of combat is decided by the moving player so it is possible to roll up an enemy line by a flanl attack to start the process – then then watch things unravel.

In the AWI I have fought everything from Cowpens to Whitemarsh – but then I helped write the rules – so I'm just a wee bittle bias on the matter

Greg Novak

I am planning on doing Sedgemoor sometime and looking towards using VnB as well. It's another small battle.

Looks like VnB would work OK represented at a smaller unit scale. I like the idea for colonial warfare that Andy suggested. Might be interesting for the Sudan.

I never got around to finishing my '45 Rebellion project. I still have a good bit. If anyone is interested in some unpainted 25mm Old Glory Jacobites email me leadjunky(at)yahoo(dot)com

Email sent!! :)

I enjoyed it for tactical NW Frontier just fine, Leadjunky. And our GM had the ranges changed, as suggested by roughriderfan, to take into account the change in scale. (Although I can't recall what the ranges were.) Each player ran two to three btns (of four bases each) and the GM ran the Afghanis in the hills.