"WWII Early War Question" Topic

Since FOW is going to do early war, which country had the most interesting force and would give the early Germans a run for their money? Any good discussion groups? Blogs? Galleries?

I run mid-war Soviets.

Regards,
Brian

French are interesting at the tactical level – some very strong tanks, intesting paint schemes. Their failings were more at a strategic level.

British are interesting – with weak cruiser tanks and strong infantry tanks. Paint schemes are mainly green (with some green cammo).

Some people like the poles. Norway is in an intersting theatre.

Quite what these will turn into in FoW is another matter entirely though.

Considering some of the polymorphing things have done, I would not start gathering units until the books are out. Then see what looks intersting to play.

French tanks on paper were pretty effective, but with only 3 man crews (some only 2 man!), with the tank commander both serving as gunner AND loader, they had some significant ergonomic problems.

Then of course there are the Soviets. T-26s and BT fast tanks, backed by a handful of KVs and T-34s.

Damon.

I think early war Soviets are the best challenge. Tanks a mixed bag, and plenty of variety.

Norway offers some neat one-off scenarios. French Foreign Legion, sailors on land, paratroopers, etc.

At the tactical level, most armies are competitive with the Germans. Remember, they have no super tanks and the allies all have weapons that can deal with German armor at this time. The best German tanks are Mk IIIs and IV and 38t, but they can all be killed by 37mm AT guns and even AT rifles.

The German victories were due to Operational and strategic superiority in planning, communications and organization. At the company level, there is really nothing wrong with the Allied forces. They make for great games in FOW. (We used to play a lot when they had the PDFs available, but for some reason stopped after they mid war and late war came out.

I love playing Barbarossa. It's a real challenge to take on the Vet Germans as they storm through Russia. Especially with the crummy tanks and crews the Soviets had…

Most interesting force in my opinion would go to the Poles. Lots of diverse units and equipment. But probably not the best for giving a run for the money if deployed historically. The best match is probably the French although you can have quite a good what if scenario if you design one around the Czechs actually fighting. They would probably have the edge in weapon technology in 1938.

Of the armies that FOW has announced will be covered in the initial early war book, I'd probably go with the Poles. Good, solid army that fought hard. The French are also pretty good in period, but the Poles are my preference. Just an opinion.

I'd rate the Norwegians a close second. Of all the countries that fell to Germany, Norway took the longest to fall. The Norwegian army fought a hell of a war against the Germans. And definitely a challenge. No tanks, aside from some French crewed and operated H-39s that they sometimes worked with the support of.

-A.

French and Poles.

You don't have to do the standard infantry units either (but they are still fun). The French had Alpine units (which can be used in Norway and against the Italians), Dragons Portees which are their mechanized forces, Cavalry, colonial troops which offer some variety, and lots of interesting armor choices.

Poles are an interesting mix as well (check out True North Miniatures) where you can field regular line infantry, Cavalry, the 10th Motorized Cavalry Brigade (neat unit dressed in black leather coats and German WWI Helmets, fought its way out of Poland, fought in France, AND later became the 1st Armored fighting the Germans in '44 in France again), and national guard units as well. Besides, you can have a Tchanka(sp) machine gun horse cart. What's not to like about that? Some tankettes available, some Vickers lights, but a smaller selection of armor than the French overall.

Both of these, at the platoon and company level, have just as good a chance winning against the Germans. In fact, the 10th Motorized Cavalry Brigade never lost a battle to the Germans!

I really think you can't go wrong with either. And you will find that once the early war bug bites you you will probably end up collecting all of them…

My opinions: 1st France – lots of tank varieties, infantry, cavalry and artillery with some air power in the Potez attack bomber and the various other aircraft. Good luck finding a Potez though. 2nd Soviet Union – lots of tanks which are fun and dangerous to the Germans like the KV2, the T-28M and the fun BT and T-34s with poor morale bolstered by crack NKVD squads who would be fearless conscripts. 3rd Norway – difficult terrain, fun vehicles even for the Germans with the tthree Neubaufahrzug tanks and virtually no airpower to speak of. The British are fourth because if you did North Afrika you already should have virtually everything they had only in desert colors.

Predictably, my vote is for the British Army. In 1940 it was fully mechanized, wholly professional, and equipped with some of the very best equipment of the day;

Notably the SMLE, the Bren, the Dingo, the A12 Matilda II, the 2pdr, the 18/25pdr, the Universal/Scout Carrier, and a bewildering array light and medium trucks.

Even the much maligned A13 Cruiser was an excellent piece of kit when given the room it needed to utilise it's awesome speed.

It depends if you plan on fighting second rate and hastily raised German infantry divisions (the bulk of their forces), or the best of the best (motorised and FJ units). At company on company I wouldn't rate the chances of any of the Allied infantry against a Schutzen comopany from 1st Panzer Div, not even the mighty Chasseurs Alpines or Brigade of Guards. To paraphrase Gamelin, insufficiency of method, of equipment etc etc There aren't however very many Panzer Divisions.

The French are probably the best bet, interesting mix of units, good artillery, and decent tanks deployed in penny packets just like wargamers like to do;-)

If you want Tigers in 1940 though, go with the Brits and Matilda IIs.

I'd say either Brits in the desert '40-'41 …

a nice array of light, cruiser and infantry tanks, and ACs vs Pz Is, IIs, IIIs (mdm 50s) and IVs (short 75s) -- don't need to bother much with infantry unless you want to, as many battles were all-tank affairs (plus a few sneaky ATGs)

… or early Russians, '41

light T26s, BT5s and BT7s vs Pz 38(t)s, Pz IIs, Pz IIIs with medium 50s, and Pz IVs with short 75s, PzJgr Is, early StuG with short 75s. The occasional 37mm ATG on either side (maybe even a 45mm for the Russkies).

Someone once told me the French mostly won tank battles below about battalion strength – and lost them above that.

I don't know if that's true or not, but it makes a bit of sense – the command problems affected manouvre and getting there the "fustest with the mostest" – not whether a particular tank could kill another one.

Dutch and Belgians had interesting kit, also the balkan countries like Greece and Yugoslavia would be interesting--You could fight Greeks vs Italians…And if you want to be really esoteric how about Abyssinia 1936?

Dunno about Ethiopia. Ethiopian infantry get an overturn result on 6+ when fighting Italians???

Damon.

French and Poles. Good looking armies with cool equipment. Also, you can use your Russians against the Poles. If you feel like it, it would be fun throwing Mussolini's boys at the French in Duce's last minute campaign to get a seat at the bargaining table.

For many of the reasons stated above, I'll suggest the French. I would add one more reason, versatility. The same figures can be used in France 39-40, Norway 40, Syria 41, and to some degree Tunisia 42-43.

Oh yeah, did I mention very cool armor with the very best camouflage schemes?

And another thing, don't forget the cheche.

Earty desert war is fun – a 20mm is equivalent to a late war 76 and a 37mm is an 88! :) I played a Command Decision game where a British two pounder portee killed so many tanks that the Italian players dubbed it "The Death Star"…. lol!