"Vietnam; what scale?" Topic

One of my future projects is Vietnam. I was thinking in doing it in 20mm/1/72 scale, using FAA miniatures and 1/72 plastic models.
A few days aga Battlefront announced this, in 15mm/1/100 scale: link

Now the FAA Vietnam range is OOP, and apparently impossible to get. I am familiar with 15mm, and the difference in price between a 1/72 kit and a resin model should not be much. I am tempted.

So what do you recommend? Why? What do you use? Any ideas will be welcome.

Have a look around here for inspiration
link

Britannia 20mm- lovely models if you appreciate the 'fat' Britannia look- the vehicles,boats and firebase are worth getting in any case!
Or- 1/300th/6mm from Irregular- easy to paint, cheap and you can field battalions for 'proper' ops. Their riverine boats are nice too!

It depends on what you want to do. If you want platoon size or smaller. 1/72 is fine. If you want company or larger, I would go 15mm.

Also depends on who you want. Army or Marines.

RAFM and Italeri also have 1/72nd scale

Peter Pig has 15mm and more Marine vehicles like the LAV-7

I'm taking a hard look at the Pendraken 10mm range, I really like the price, models, and the range is a decent size.

I would go with 1/72nd scale.

Hopefully, someone will pick up the FAA molds.

You might inquire here on TMP about that.

This is the first I have heard about them being out of production, which is a shame.

Flashpoint have just released their reworked 15mm range. The BF range will not be expanded beyond those 6 packs, so you're going to be switching brands eventually anyway.

The 15mm models are generally cheaper than 20mm model kits, sturdier and easier to assemble…

I am familiar with 15mm

Then I won't need to tell you about ours :-)

Geoff
quickreactionforce.co.uk

GFI/Minifigs has a decent range in N scale (10-12mm) for Vietnam. Been out for a few years, too.

Best
Tom Dye
GFI

It really depends on the size of actions you want to do. Locally we have been playing it in 6mm and you really get the feel of larger scale blocking and search and destroy operations. I've played it in larger scales for skirmish type games but I really like the larger scope of 6mm.

I lean towards company sized operations or smaller. Thanks for the suggestions, right now it looks like 15mm will be my choice.

I agree with Gaz. I have the Brittania models which are a beefy 20mm. The firebase, huts, and boats that Brittania sell are really well done in my opinion. I like the feel of a skirmish game for Vietnam. I like having each player control a squad of troops. I have found that if you give someone too many figures they just sacrifice them but if they only have 8-12 figures it makes them think about their actions before they just charge right in.

Brian

I went 10-12mm for Vietnam

for several reasons:
Vietnam combat is more infantry oriented and 10mm provides a good level of detail vs size, especially if you field teams/squad as your base unit
10mm allows for a reasonable table and scale effect
the vehicles are well covered
I find it cheaper

One other consideration is what level of game you want to play: do you want to field a company, a battalion, squad or platoon?

here is someone who is doing Vietnam in 10mm:
link

I'd say 15mm is currently quite a good bet. I used to do 20 and 10mm but got rid of both to go 15mm. Regret losing the 10mm (just because it was such a big collection). Don't regret losing the 20mm – even thought it was just as large a collection.
Also as Col Stone says follow that link it's an excellent forum

I have some Pendraken (infantry) and GFI/Minifigs (vehicles and choppers) I will eventually paint up and use. I am very happy with all of them.

Thanks for sharing the link, Helmet! That is one awesome game report!

Tom Dye
GFI

which rules do you use with 15mm or 10mm minis?

I like 20mm for Co and smaller actions, more because the players see the detail and seem more "attached" to their troops, making them less likely to throw them away.

For larger (or even Company sized battles) I've been using 3mm minis from Oddzial Osmy, with some Riverine from JTF600. You get a great realistic feel with the tiny helos zipping around, and the Oddzial Osmy minis have incredible detail! (plus you can paint a ton of them very quickly and the cost is extremely low!)

My only issue with 15mm is the cost. When I compared 15mm to 20mm, 20mm came out on top when dealing with helicopters, lanes and tanks. Of course, the build complexity is higher for plastics, and much more time consuming… so it can be a trade off. That said, there is a lot of great 15mm minis, and more on the way.

Don't do it 1:1. Done that and it sucks. If you don't mind me asking. Why game Vietnam?

Rich

I do Nam at 1:1. I use 1/72 and 20mm. I have recently picked up 15mm figs too.

Thanks,

John

Why game Vietnam? Why game ANY historical period? For me, it presents differnt terrain, circumstances, equipment, uniforms, strategies and tactics, etc. than other periods. Lessons learned can be seen applied in today's practices.

Just as valid a period to game to better understand contemporary moderns as it is to study SYW to better understand napoleonics.

As a Vietnam era vet,I remain fully capable of separating the personal experiences of the time from interfereing with my wargame experiences. Some can't, so shouldn't game the period. It's a hobby and one should be allowed to pursue whatever aspects that brings them fun and happiness. Simply move along if it seems repulsive and play something else, but nobody should feel they have a "right" to put down those that do enjoy the period. (Not saying you are, Rich, either.) />)

Best
Tom Dye
GFI

The US operations in Vietnam contains over 100 Named Operations! That's a lot of scenario info! A lot of the named operations were at Battalion level and above.

This "operational" level has more appeal to me than at the skirmish level. It affords a better understanding as to how modern operations are planned, executed and evaluated than gaming a small patrol.

Agree with you, Rich, that (depending on the rules and scenario used), skirmish level does not capture but a small part of the conflict.

best
Tom Dye
GFI

I use 20mm for Vietnam mixing together Britannia, Platoon 20, Liberation, Qualiticast and RAFM. All work well together and gives alot of variation. Add to this all the available plastic kits and you are sorted! Elhiem Miniatures is also releaseing CIDG and ARVN personnel in the near future too.

In 15mm the Flashpoint stuff looks very nice. Not my scale but it would be great for larger scale actions.

I tend to game platoon sized battles so 20mm fits for me with the look Im trying to recreate, plus all the scenery is also used for our 20mm WW2 games with our Japanese army.

I would go with 20mm or 10mm.

10mm and probably mainly Pendraken for company +

20mm and probably mainly SHQ for platoon sort of size.

I'm surprised nobody mention SHQ before – I think they're the best 20mm for nam.
Having said that I think maybe there was a pack or two in the Martello range which would be brilliant if and when you can buy them again.

I've go to go with 'Big P from GMG' on this one. There's so much stuff available in 1/72 and 20mm scales (metals, plastics, model kits, etc..) that you have to consider it. This is the scale I'm going with. It's large enough to paint some decent details, can still be mounted individually, but not too large that it's cost prohibitive (like 28mm).

I also agree that sharing terrain is a good idea too. I do 20mm WWII (Pacific) and am working on some 20mm modern (needing jungle terrain) so I will be able to share the terrain. I may even have to investigate doing 20mm Korea since I'll have a lot of terrain to start with.

Vietnam combat is more infantry oriented and 10mm provides a good level of detail vs size, especially if you field teams/squad as your base unit

Funny, that's why I do it in 15mm :-)

If you do 15mm you can also go back to the French war with the Eureka figs.

I play it in 20mm for skirmish and 15mm with infantry based similar to FoW for larger actions. It's all fun.

I totally agree with Top Gun Ace, someone needs to buy the FAA/Qualiticast molds and get this range on the market again!

this could be a useful site.

eleven-bravo.co.uk

I bought a load of 10mm stuff on a bring & buy. The appeal of a smaller scale is that you can use helicopters without them taking taking up too much space. Land a company during the game, evacuate casualties, it should look good.

I decided it was a project i was never going to finish though, and Pendraken seemed to stop making Hueys with the doors open, so they will be going back on the B&B.

I don't knock the period. I did fight there and I cannot game that experience. That was not the thrust of question. I was in the 1st Infantry Division and did sweeps along Highway 1 from Saigon to the Cambodian boarder. It was extremely boring until we walked into an ambush. Out of 80 men only 20 of us made it back to NDP. After they hit us, we broke contact and called in the world on top of them. We watched as artillery hit them, jets strafed them, Puff came with their quad 40s. When we went back into the battlefield, what was once a lush green was now mud. There was not a stick of green any where. It was a turkey shot for artillery, jets, and puff. That doesn't sound like an interesting game: "OK guys lay out you VC. Now we are going to his them with artillery, jets, and quad 40s." Where is the skill?

Rich

In writing a decent scenario…

I use 15mm from Flashpoint and Peter Pig with Time Cast Models buildings.

I use 20mm from Britannia, Platoon 20, NAM, Liberation and QRF with the above mentioned 15mm buildings and 1/72 scale pegasus kits as well as some scratch built ones.

For models I use 15mm Corgi and Model Master 1:100 scale choppers and 15mm peter pig vehicles.

For 20mm models I use a combination of ESCI (Italari) 1/72 models, Trumpeter and Revell.

I also have GHQ and CinC microarmor 1/285 scale that I do nam.