"Top Westerns of the '60s" Topic

Since we had 50s and 70s it seemed like someone had to put up the middle sooner or later.

My candidates:

A Fistful of Dollars: The one that really kicked the genre into the 60s. It wasn't perfect but it was fun.

Butch and Sundance: With William Goldman's script, Paul Newman and Robert Reford (pluss a slew of great characters like Strother Martin), and B J Thomas's song you can't help but like it.

The Undefeated: One of John Wayne's less well known Westerns it is a real gem. It has some really awesome shots of Mexican landscapes and hundreds of horses running in one big herd. Good dialogue, Rock Hudson, and a stirring theme by Hugo Montenegro make it well worth watching.

Guns of the Magnificent Seven: The best of the Mag 7 sequels this movie had a more original plot. It also had the best 7 since the original. It did seem to revel in the brutality more than the original and the final shootout was the bloodiest in the anthology with only two of the seven surviving. George Kennedy didn't make a very good Chris but he was almost better since none of the "Chris's" in the sequels were really "Chris". At least not for me.

ALV

Butch and Sundance is great!!!

The good, the bad & the ugly, one of the best ever.
Leone's others.

The man who shot Liberty Valance, with my favourite Jimmy Stewart

Peckinpah's Wild Bunch

and……I have to think.

RRR

In no particular order:

Ride the high country – the only Peckinpah I can watch with any enjoyment.

How the west was won – some good bits, several bad bits, the best of all Western scores. Watch back to back with :
Hallelujah trail – the best Western comedy not to star James Garner.

True Grit – no need to explain that one.

Professionals – this, gentlemen, is the quotablest Western of them all.

Day of the evil gun, and Firecreek – if only for cameos by the awesome Dean Jagger.

In no order

The good the bad and the ugly
once upon a time in the west.
The man who shot liberty valance
The wild bunch
And ofcourse the magnificent seven

Magnificent Seven.
The Good, Bad, ugly./whole Dollar Trilogy
The Wild Bunch.
True Grit.
Professionals for the quotes :)

For some reason I had Magnificent Seven in the wrong decade. So obviously add that.

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly/A Fistful of Dollars/For a Few Dollars More
Once Upon a Time in the West
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
The Magnificent Seven
The Alamo
The Professionals
The War Wagon
Shalako (only for Brigitte Bardot )
True Grit
The Wild Bunch

1. Magnificent Seven
2. The Wild Bunch
3. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
4. The Sons of Katie Elder
5. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

You have to have some Duke Wayne movies in any top 5/10 list of westerns. I think of Clint Eastwood as the actor who picked up the whole western genre and carried it forward into the 1970s, with a new and grittier twist.

The Wild Bunch
The Professionals
Magnificent Seven
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence
Ride the High Country

I agree with all of these and add The Searchers

Agree with all of the above recommendations.

I'll also add "The Great Silence"/"Il grande silenzio", a gem of a spaghetti Western, beautifully filmed, that isn't as well known as it should be.

Some of my favourites for the 60s are:-
"Ride the High Country"
"The Wild Bunch"
"The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly"
"Hour of the Gun"
"Support Your Local Sheriff"
"Once Upon A Time in the West"

AJ, "The Searchers" is 1956

>I agree with all of these and add The Searchers<

The Searchers is from 1956.

>>I'll also add "The Great Silence"/"Il grande silenzio", a gem of a spaghetti Western, beautifully filmed, that isn't as well known as it should be.<<

There are so many euro-westerns that we should really have a separate category for non-Leone Spaghetti Westerns. Most euros were never seen here on their first run, or were shown on a very limited basis in "scratch houses" here in the USA. All of Corbucci's are very good. In the 1960's "Django", "Navajo Joe", and "The Mercenary". In 1970 "Companeros".

Which ending for The Great Silence?

If forced to pick just one, it would be The Good, The Bad and the Ugly.

I would have said Valdez is Coming, but that is 70s.

Which ending for The Great Silence?

Haha, like you even have to ask! The "happy" ending, which is included as an extra on the current DVD release, is so bad on so many levels. It's obvious that Corbucci's attitude was, "You want a happier ending? I got your happy ending right here!"

The scene in which the camera is stationary and the stagecoach slowly disappears into the white-out blizzard is still one of my favorites of all time.

>>The scene in which the camera is stationary and the stagecoach slowly disappears into the white-out blizzard is still one of my favorites of all time.<<

So very few Euro-Westerns are filmed anywhere except in southern Spain that it's a plus just to see different scenery.

Corbucci is my favorite Italian director aside from Leone and I liked all of his films more than I liked Leone's "Duck You Sucker" and "My Name Is Nobody".

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm surprised that so many people like "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance". I found it long on talk and *very* short on action. The only two scenes that I remember distinctly were the scene where Valance gets it and when when John Wayne says "Liberty Valance is the

toughest man south of the Picket Wire…except for me"

Sorry about that two parter. (-:

Movies I liked:

North to Alaska (1960)
McLintock (1963)
Cat Ballou (1965)
The Rounders (1965)
Nevada Smith (1966)
Hombre (1967)

>>Cat Ballou (1965)<<

Gaaack!!! Hanoi Jane!!

Y'know what? She was a real Fox, and Lee Marvin was great, but I just can't watch that flick. I can't even stand to look at her.

>>The Rounders (1965)<<

Modern West. In that category we should include "Hud" and especially "Lonely Are The Brave".

My favorites in no particular order are:

Fistful of Dollars – When I saw it on it's first U.S. run I was blown away. There were anti-heroes before "Joe", but really nothing like him. The music was great and as Gamer says, it brought the genre to America in a big way. There were some Euro-Westerns here before FFOD, but none had such an impact.

For A Few Dollars More – A true sequel to FFOD. It was even better IMHO.

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly – Everybody has seen this flick a zillion times so there's little to discuss except that Morricone's score over the opening title and credits is the equal of Bernstien's "Magnificent 7" and both had me really stoked for the movies to come. All opening titles should have music like that. I don't think the rest of Morricone's score in TGTBATU is as good as the rest of the score in Mag 7 though. It's a bit too melodramatic at times, while Mag 7's score is rousing all the way through.

The film really isn't a prequel to the two others as it takes place during the Civil War long before them and Clint only puts on the poncho at the end. I don't see it as part of a trilogy.

Eli Wallach gets much more on screen time than the other two leads, but he's very effective as is the epic plot. Van Cleef is even better as Angel Eyes than Mortimer IMO.

The Magnificent 7 – Great score. Great casting. Compelling plot. Outstanding direction. Probably as close to perfect as a western can be.

The Wild Bunch – We covered this one at length already.

The Professionals – Another great cast and story. I really like the Wild Bunch/Professionals era and setting. Rugged mercenary types carrying Winchester 97 riot guns and .45 semi-automatics south of the border. I love it!

Hour of the Gun – Before "Tombstone" this was the most reasonably semi accurate film of the Gunfight at the OK Corral and it's aftermath. Garner made a good Wyatt and Robards Jr. is the most intellectual of the "Doc's" and can really chew up the scenery, but he's fun to watch. Sturges also directed The Last Train From Gun Hill, The Magnificent 7, and Gunfight at the OK Corral.

Ride The High Country – Was a prelude to what Peckinpah would reveal about himself and his directing style in The Wild Bunch. If anybody's interested, he also wrote and directed a very short lived western TV series titled "The Westerner" with Brian Keith about a wandering, saddle tramp cowpuncher in the Old West. Peckinpah didn't sugar coat the character at all. He was a simple guy, illiterate, wasn't particularly bright otherwise, and never thought farther ahead than tomorrow. It was a very gritty series. But the show only lasted 13 episodes as the public wasn't ready for a "hero" that wasn't ambitious, made bad decisions, drank a lot and didn't seem to have any moral convictions. And oh yeah…didn't mind shooting people…and as we know when people in a Peckinpah production get shot it's pretty dramatic.

Check it out. It's good.

I was disappointed with "Major Dundee". All of the action scenes were directed by a "2nd unit" director, not Peckinpah, and it shows.

"Liberty Valance" didn't quite make my list, but I like it a lot *because* it's long on talking and short on action. Especially when it comes to speechifying by John Carradine :-)

"Cat Ballou" is hysterically funny ('I try talking Hebrew to him but he pretends not to understand me' &c.), and I really like the Cole/Kaye chorus. Can't bring myself to watch it again though, for the same reason as you.

The huge problem with "Dundee" is that it quite simply never had a coherent script. Now that we've had a chance to see something close to the intended cut, it still doesn't make sense.

Mention of The Chuck reminds me of "Will Penny", which has a somewhat '70s feel to it but was actually made in '68.

1. For a Few Dollars More
2. True Grit
3. Sergeant Rutledge
4. Hombre
5. The Magnificent Seven

Hard choices but these are the ones I still keep watching.

Bob

A couple that I have problems with.

True Grit – Wayne is great, and the final showdown with Duvall's "Ned Pepper" ("fill your hand you S.O.B") is memorable, but I found Kim Darby's "Mattie" to be extremely annoying! I read the book before I saw the movie and I had a very different picture of the character in my mind. I saw her as very tough, determined and strong willed, while I found Darby's version to be a major pain in the *ss! It wasn't the character, it was her portrayal. I just don't think that she got it right.

The Sons of Katie Elder – I found the bickering to be annoying and the movie, for me, was too long.

Once Upon a Time in the West – Parts are great, the scene at the railroad station during the opening credits is now classic, Fonda's "Frank" is dead on, and much of the dialogue is memorable, but I'm not sure about Jason Robards Jr. playing "Cheyenne", as there are parts where he's good and others where he seems miscast and not nearly deadly enough looking. I don't like his "theme" music either. Too "pokey" for a dangerous outlaw leader. "Harmonica's" theme was grating on my nerves until I saw why it had that plaintive sound, but even then I found it hard to listen to. In short, I like the film, but I think that it could have been better.

Don't forget, "The Gunfight at OK Coral".

"The Gunfight at OK Coral" was released in 1957.

Regarding "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid", I liked the movie. I've seen it several times. There are *many* memorable lines like "who are those guys?", "think you used enough dynamite there Butch", "the fall will probably kill ya", "I'm not crazy, I'm just colorful" and "I don't mean to be a sore loser, but when it's done, if I'm dead, kill him", and there was great chemistry between Newman and Redford, but two things annoyed me. First, the sequence with Butch riding a bicycle with "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head" playing in the background, and the fact that we were robbed of the final shootout scene. I think that these were both artistic conceits of the director and neither helped the film at all.

I actually liked the bike scene in Butch Cassidy (although it was nothing like the real Butch Cassidy who was not a touch romantic) but the movie did seem to waste time a bit and the Etta Place character didn't contribute much to the story. When the movie first came out it in 1969 or 1970 was rated R and I believe it did include a scene where Butch and Sundance really do get shot up but when it was rereleased in 1975 it had been edited so it was only PG.

On another subject I was disappointed with Nevada Smith. It had some good elements but I thought that the end was disappointing. McQueen's character doesn't get called Nevada Smith until the end and when he does it carries no significance whatsoever. When Karl Malden's character orders his "boys" to hide in the cabin before he tests Smith I expected a big shootout. Instead the movie ended with happy music played during a robbery and with Smith wounding Malden and riding away.

And yes "Hour of the Gun" was unusually good though Robards was a touch old to play Doc (who was only 30 at the time of the OK corral fight). I found it interesting that they started with the OK corral and then moved to the Earp vendetta ride. The OK corral was almost right. There were about twice as many cowboys as there should have been but the body count at the end was right.

"Nevada Smith" was a prequel to something else and like many prequels was pretty poor in its own right.

"Butch Cassidy and you know who" tried very hard to follow the jolly badman script and the Etta Place scenes and lack of Peckenpah style ending played that up. Not my cup of coffee but a good choice considering their options.

Duke and Martin were both WAY too old for their roles in "SoKE".

Annoying but persistent Maddi suited the film version of "True Grit" just right. A bit like the Red Riding Hood in that Bugs Bunny cartoon.

>>When the movie first came out it in 1969 or 1970 was rated R and I believe it did include a scene where Butch and Sundance really do get shot up but when it was rereleased in 1975 it had been edited so it was only PG.<<

Nope. As it is on DVD right now is exactly the way I saw it on it's first run in theaters. The closing scene "freeze frames" exactly the way you see it now. It has not been edited for violence.

Regarding "Nevada Smith", I liked it well enough. Funny that the scene I remember most is when McQueen does a fast draw. He was *very* fast. And M C is correct. First came the hugely popular novel largely about the film industry in the 1930's titled "The Carpetbaggers" by Harold Robbins, then the film "Nevada Smith", then the film "The Carpetbaggers". In the novel, Nevada Smith becomes a film cowboy hero and even though I read it back in the early 1960's I don't recall that there was a "flashback" to when he was younger and when the story "Nevada Smith" takes place. Allan Ladd played the part of the older "Nevada" in the film version of "The Carpetbaggers".

How about TV?
Gunsmoke
Lawman
Colt 45
The Rebel
The Rifleman
Laramie
Bonanza
Maverick
Sugarfoot
Bronco Lane
Cheyenne
Have Gun Will Travel (wire Paladin San Francisco)
The Big Valley
Rawhide
Wagon Train
Steve McQueen with his Mare's Leg Forget the name.
Wild Wild West
El Feugo Baca on Disney
Zorro
Rin Tin Tin
Daniel Boone
Davy Crockett on Disney
Cisco Kid
Lone Ranger
Red Ryder
The Virginian
Hopalong Cassidy
Gene Autrey
Roy Rogers

Bat Masterson
Wyatt Earp
Tombstone Territory
Broken Arrow
The Restless Gun

Steve McQueen's was Wanted Dead or Alive.

Nope. As it ("Butch and Sundance") is on DVD right now is exactly the way I saw it on it's first run in theaters. The closing scene "freeze frames" exactly the way you see it now. It has not been edited for violence.

Shadow has it absolutely right.

Next time you watch the movie, notice a few things:

The movie opens with a scratchy, sepia-toned silent film of the "real" Butch and Sundance (not a real silent-era film, but one filmed for the movie by George Roy Hill). The sepia coloring is maintained for the first few minutes of the actual film.

Later in the movie, the New York scenes are shown as a series of sepia-toned still photos with some limited movement or animation.

The final shootout is a single sepia-toned still photo of the pair in extreme close-up. We slowly move "out" and away from the photo as the pair gets smaller and smaller in the center of the photo.

The progression from silent movie to photo montage to single photo symbolizes the "running down" of the Old West as Butch and Sundance move into the modern era. (The civilizing or taming of the West was a common theme of Westerns in the '60s, including many of the films in this thread.)

Another thing: I mentioned the sepia-toned silent film and photos. Butch and Sundance are almost always lit warmly in the film, and shot in or against warm, soft colors, primarily golds and tans. Even when they're dressed in black, they look golden.

The film is also one of the most beautifully filmed Westerns ever made. The cinematographer, Conrad L. Hall, won the Oscar that year. (Hall, who died in 2003, also worked on The Professionals, Cool Hand Luke, In Cold Blood, Hell in the Pacific, Tell Them Willie Boy Is Here, Electra Glide in Blue, Marathon Man, American Beauty, and Road to Perdition – not a bad resume.)

Needless to say, one of my favorite films of all tine.

In addition to the TV list, I also enjoyed "The Westerner", "The Dakotas", "Trackdown", and the first dozen or so episodes of "High Chaparral". Interestingly, "The Westerner" only ran 13 episodes, and "The Dakotas" only 19 episodes. Both shows were too gritty for TV audiences and one episode of "The Dakotas" titled "Sanctuary at Crystal Springs" where there's a violent shootout inside a church, caused such an outcry that the show may have been canceled as a result. There was also a protest against the violence in the early episodes of "High Chaparral" and the show became more "family" oriented after that. I have the first few episodes of HC on tape and they are amazing. Almost like full length movies in their production values.

Bonanza could be "family" or "gritty" depending on who wrote it. Some episodes were dark. It is one of the first shows I know of that actually showed female characters dying on screen and people shot in cold blood on screen. Most shows prior to this preferred to imply such things or at least settle for a close-up of the person doing the shooting. On the other hand some of the Bonanza bordered on Western parody with everyone running around yelling and jumping like Old West Looney Toons. All a bit weird. The shows really ran the gamut. On the plus side they were one fo the few "non-religious" shows that made extensive references to God and Christian principles. Just depends on which episode you see. Some were very well-written.

ALV