| Armand | 10 Nov 2009 3:04 p.m. PST |
Wonder to know if in your wargames there can be a situation of turn the cannons captured. For that, I had to ask: a) It's possible that a cannon crew dead and their enemies took the pieces?. b) The only situation is the destruction of the artillery unit?. c) Never a battery can be captured and used against their own Army?. Amicalement
Armand |
| Clay the Elitist | 10 Nov 2009 3:06 p.m. PST |
My home-grown rules has a set of "Heroic Events", one of which is: "Enemy guns are captured and you want to turn them on the enemy. An infantry battalion that captures an artillery battery can remain with the guns and fire with two dice . French Old Guard can fire with eight dice." |
| Private Matter | 10 Nov 2009 3:11 p.m. PST |
Playing Sharp's Practice we have had scenarios where the cannon was over run and then turned on its original owner. In one game a single cannon switched sides 5 times although each time without the desired effect of the owners at that time. |
| Dances with Clydesdales | 10 Nov 2009 3:12 p.m. PST |
Usually asume they are spiked, or otherwise unusable. |
| malcolmmccallum | 10 Nov 2009 3:17 p.m. PST |
Capturing a loaded cannon and firing it once is easy the easy part. One wonders what went wrong though that a crew abandoned a loaded cannon. Reloading the piece is tricky part. In de Brack's instruction manual for Light Cavalry, he tries to include instruction on how to load artillery pieces but it is 19 pages of material that involves each trooper having to take a specific role and performing that role with some precision. So a trooper might be expected to take the role of second left gunner and have no idea what he is doing becuase he was taught it once years before but never did it since. In Sharp Practise, I allow infantry to fire guns that are already loaded and to augment artillery crews for manhandling guns but not to increase load times. |
 Der Alte Fritz  | 10 Nov 2009 3:20 p.m. PST |
I don't allow it in my games because it only adds another layer of complexity. I don't allow "opportunity fire" for the same reason. |
 John the OFM | 10 Nov 2009 6:04 p.m. PST |
Infantry (or artillery) at this time were not encouraged to think. They were thought of as mindless as a musket. You point them in the right direction and let them kill.
They were NOT trained in such esoterica as loading and aiming artillery. They also did not have idle artillerists on call when guns were captured.
Captured guns were used in the campaign mode. Once things were sorted out, after the battle, the guns were incorprated into the army. Hopefully, enough suitable ammunition was captured too. The cannons in the American Revolution have interesting histories. Many were captured several times, the Hessian guns at Trenton being famous for this. They were sent back to the army HQ for re-distribution. To be captured again. They make great victory points. |
| 21eRegt | 10 Nov 2009 9:14 p.m. PST |
Artillerymen are the first true professionals in armies, understanding math and some science to make their guns truly effective. So no, I do not want to see rules allowing infantry to man and use captured pieces. Infantry could help replace fallen men of the battery, but not gunners. John, that is a gross over simplification. Among other things many armies at one time or another messed around with battalion guns so depending on the year they might "have idle artillerists to call upon when guns were captured." Whether they would prefer to continue to use pieces they knew and understood is another question. All this said, in the official regimental history of the 21eme at the battle of Novi in 1799 records otherwise. After being cut off as the battle turned against the French, a group of the 21eme lead by Sergent-major Jean-George Pauly over-ran a Russian artillery element and used them to open a gap through which they could retire, thereby earned the battle cry that endures today. "C'est durant cette bataille que le sergent-major Jean-George Pauly de la 21eme demi-brigade de Ligne, separè du reste de son règiment, arriva, avec l'aide de quelques survivants, a capturer un canon russe et le retourner contre l'ennemi tout en lancant le cri cèlëbre qui devint la devise du 21eme de Ligne "je passe quand même." Cette devise figurera sur l'insigne du corps d'aujourd'hui." |
| Frederick | 11 Nov 2009 7:09 a.m. PST |
D'accord, mon ami Michel, mais les soldats du France sont peut-etre exceptionnel I would agree that most times the average Napoleanic grunt was pretty much focused on putting one foot behind the other That being said, there were no question exceptional soldiers, especially in the Revolutionary and early Empire armies, who took advantage of opportunities – like a troops of Hussars capturing a ship We mostly play grand tactical, so don't have this factored into our rules – like Fritz says, they are complex enough already |
