"Do you "cheat" on the colors of your WW2 armies?" Topic

I have been planning on painting a British WW2 army. Thing is I want my 1940 France and 1944-45 stuff to work together. I don't want to have two sets of quad tractors, 25 lbrs, trucks, etc., one set in light green and dark olive for 1940 another set in NW Europe cammo for 1944-45. Same for Germans, 88's, trucks,etc. in gray for 1939-41, yellow, red-brown, olive for 1943-45. Anyone else dealt with this problem? Any advice on generic, yet good looking painting that does double duty? Figure manufacturers and the rich need not reply. Thanks!

Good question and something that many have thought about at different times I am sure. I really don't have a solution. Other than scaling down to make stuff smaller(easier to store) and cheaper(easier o your wallet)

I always strive to have the correct color for a given theater/time. That said, I don't have a coronary if my ideal isn't realized. I would though have a coronary over unpainted lead.

Aim for a consistent theater/time for the bulk of your armies. If a piece of equipment didn't exist in that time period or theater then then paint it towards its most prolific period.

Hmmmm,

Anyone have a non faded original fabric swatch or paint from 1939-1945?

Didn't think so. So Colors are approximate at best. Add wear and tear and fading, not to mention batch lots or even different factories and you have so many variations of color that even attempting to say there is a standard color that is correct is a fallacy.

:)

I use what I have or what I feel looks good. I paint my German Panther tanks pink. But I do vary the camo schemes because there was no standard factory camo scheme each tank and platoon was given paint and told to do it.

:)

Chris

"If a piece of equipment didn't exist in that time period or theater"

A useful guideline for a lot of armor, actually. Add to this the ever-changing camo schemes and the equipment swapping and you can be fairly liberal in a lot of cases.

Or run lots of partisans. They don't change much.

For my Germans I went with standard Feldgrau, so that I can use them thru out the war. For tanks that were made prior to 1943 I went with Panzer Grey. After 1943 I went with Dunkelgelb. Tanks in that era that were used 42 and 43 I have some with a pattern of Dunkelgelb over Panzer Grey. I also have scattered stands with early camo uniform helmets, smocks, etc. Normally I spread these out over the force. But if I want to run strictly SS, then I use only the camo'd ones for the force I am fielding.

It is very hard to mix North Africa troops with the rest of Europe. So I went with Eastern Front and low countries uniforms for Germany. My Italians have a bit of both styles of uniforms, tropical and homeland.

My Soviets pretty much have the same stuff from day one to the end of the war. Same colors, same gear, same blankets, same rifles, yada, yada, yada.

So just look around the group you will be playing with and try to match what opponents you will face. That way you will get more games, your army will look good and you will have fun.

Chris

Most of my German stuff is Dunkelgelb for mid-war on – I have a separate set of vehicles for early war in grey – mind you, they are 6mm

If the vehicle is even close I use it. Gray in '44 or dunkel in '41. But I'm ty that way. same goes for my Napoelonic french. They have time traveling uniforms!

Generic? For Germans, panzer gray with dabs of dunkel gelb and/or local mud will do for much of the war, especially for non-combat vehicles, such as trucks. For the Allies (other than French), either front, some kind of dark olive drab would work for anything except North Africa (and even there could work for Tunisia).

If I ever get round to painting my Germans for FoW, I plan on doing the vehicles in dark yellow. That way, they'll be equally wrong for both the Russian and African fronts. :)

Yes….I admit it…I am a cheater.

The same question comes up in other gaming periods as well, for example playing an 1813 Austrian scenario (infantry in shakos) when you have an 1809 army in helmets.

As a figure/ model collection, I tend to paint what is accurate for the time and place that I decided that my wargaming battlegroup is supposed to represent. So if I decide upon building a Panzergrenadier unit from early 1942 in Russia, I'll stick to the colour scheme possibilities for that period.

But on the wargames table I'll happily have them playing a later or earlier scenario without worrying much over it. The game is the thing, and I tend to ignore (or in some other way punish) the remarks of those pedantic es who feel the need to point such things out as if I didn't know already. I'm not about to paint up duplicate tanks and infantry for different theatres and seasons.

In any event, I would imagine a heavy wash of mud or dust could hide a multitude of sins.

My Austrians have helmets too! Dag nab it! Now I have to post on the Nappy page too!

"Anyone have a non faded original fabric swatch or paint from 1939-1945?"

The Littlefield Collection actually has one. It was in their Panther.

But, that aside, my Germans are a motley bunch – and purposely so – in order to be useful in Tunisia as well as the Ostfront. Most of the vehicles are painted Dunkelgelb, but there are a few N. Africa specific ones which are in sand.

Wyatt

WWIIOgre, after the fall of '44 German tanks were painted (complete with camo scheme) from the factory. See Jentz book on the Panther.

To answer the question, I paint the figures I have accurately for the time period I'm trying to model.

Damon.

I pick a battle or campaign and build my force to that OOB. However, I'll use them when and where I can. No harm in that if the DBA folks can pull some of the crazy stuff they do at tournaments.

I agree with wwiiogre above. I am also quite open about trucks and soft skins, a green one is good for Soviets or British or Spanish Republicans. Grey ones for Germans and Spanish Insurgents.

With armour its easier as none of the tanks in use in 1940 would still be around in 1944 so these can be happily painted in the authentic styles. Bren carriers and Hanomags are more likely to be seen in the "wrong" paint scheme on the table. Paint and a heavy dry brush makes them all blend in.

Garand,

So you are saying a few hundred panthers were factory painted. After the Fall of 44, that would be November? or December? So 6-8 months worth of a single type of tank for all sides and all production models.

I stand corrected.

:)

chris

Generally, but then none of my 21st Pz Div stuff would have been around in 40. I have at least one Panzer-II in yellow, however my yellow P-III are have bazooka plates whereas my grey ones are all early. If I was playing a scenareo that required more than I have of either colour it is not a problem.

Likewise my 18mm Napoleonics do some time travel, I have armies based on the period, early and late Russians, however for a big game all get to play! And once again the Austrians,h helmets on, helmets off!

As for my 28 mm FPW Prussians, now Helion are superb but actually wear the 1866 helmet, but that does not stop them being 50% of my 1870 army.

Now the same problem in my new FPW 6mm project, mmm – no problem even someone who could detect the wrong period sandles at 50 paces would be in trouble!

If providing a display game then I believe historical accuracy is a must, T-34/76 don't cut it as T-34/85!

Tally Ho!

I play in 6mm and most of time, solo… but I want my toys with the correct colours! So for example, pushing Afrika Korps Pz IIIs in Russia, is a big no-no for me. But I could throw one or two models (ok, three) in desert colour, if I have not them in Panzer Grey.

wrt paint jobs, it depends. For AFVs you can usually do period/theatre specific paint jobs as they aren't aroudn for the whole war.

Softskins and guns are another matter. I will usually do these for specific units at specific times, but if push comes shove, some of them will do for other periods and theatres. I am a particular offender for this with my Soviets, as green is green….

My 1940 BEF stuff is very specific, and I'm not sure I could bring myself to use it for 1944, nor vice versa.

I do sometimes use panzergrau transport in 1944, but not the other way around. I don't mix late and early war infantry either.

My Tunisian stuff I also did as suitable for Italy, so there are some disruptive camo schemes. Desert stuff is desert specific (again, specific units).

So, I do cheat a bit.

I follow the dame idea as wwiiogre since my Germans need to be able to take the field in scenarios from 1939-45. I'm trying to have a decent selection of all the main AFVs and SPGs (about a platoon of each).

Deserter, some German tanks in Russia were painted in North Africa colors, which worked well in the dusty south during the summer.

Damon.

Garand, really? Great! I knew only of Panzergrau camouflaged with mud. But only single vehicles or whole units?

Oh joy a found the link

link

"In addition, starting in spring of 1942, vehicles used in the southern parts of Russia, were often applied with tropical camouflage, similar or identical to those used in North Africa."

Thank you very much, indeed…

Saw a picture of a captured IV on the Eastern Front. While the top of the tank had been repainted in Russian armor green and had Russian markings, all the running gear still showed the distinctive German dunkelgelb.

Well, I try to build a force that *could have* existed, but my WW2 Brits are all Desert Rats (and equipped/based accordingly), while my Germans are '101st Panzerjager Abteilung' (a Weird WW2 unit from Mamorou Oshii's Kerberos storyarc). Dunkelgelb halftracks (and a mix of -C and -Ds), Panzergrau trucks, and based for either Stalingrad or NWE.

Do they occasionally get out and fight each other? yep! Also, the Germans have stood in for regular Panzergrenadiers or even Grenadiers on occasion.

It ultimately comes down to personal preference. I like my figures & vehicles to be reasonably accurate, at least to the level of a scheme appropriate for year, equipment & zone of operation & try to get that right at least, something about the aesthetics of the game.

Vehicles, weapons & infantry kit all change throughout the war. A 1940 tommy looks very different from his 1944 counterpart with the respirator bag on his chest, no PIAT, Sten or (probably) Thompson SMG, no foliage or scrim on his helmet (as a rule)& a very different 'feel' about him as a whole.

MT is also very different between 1940 & 1944. Loking at the Various "WWII in Colour" productions it becomes clear that dunkelgelb was almost universal in the Wehrmacht by 1944. The occasional gray truck is seen but they stand out like sore thumbs to my mind. They could also be Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe, civilian or quasi-military (eg org-Todt) vehicles too. Even with British equipment there are quite significant changes to the vehicles & gun themselves, yet alone their paint schemes – eg 18/25 pounders in 1940, the 25 pounder MkII in 1944 which look rather different.

My Germs are "mediteranean"…originally for Tunisia, so are fine for southern Italy Sicilly,and ok-ish for the desert. When I have to add in location specific stuff they tend to be correct for the time and location.
Having said that I have few qualms about mix and matching for Napoleonics. Partly thats because if I want to paint a particular range then I will,I'm not always going to pass up on figures/units I like just because they have a longer coat or different cuffs. With a biggish collection its quite difficult to keep them all in one time and place. Possible if your collection is 1,000 figures, less so if its 10,000